Dealer Tells

R

riggler

Active Member
#21
#21
Ok, most of the casinos I've been in I've noticed what was said above about the black vs. A on the peek.

BUT...at a casino which is my fav, I actually have a supposedly "used" deck. Hole punch through the cards.. and even a time/date stamp on a card insert with torn jokers....

And the casino uses the mirror peak. The cards DON'T have the black in the corners on the 10s. So they must be seeing the card value through the mirror, right? At least they arn't seeing black v. A.
 
aslan

aslan

Well-Known Member
#22
#22
riggler said:
Ok, most of the casinos I've been in I've noticed what was said above about the black vs. A on the peek.

BUT...at a casino which is my fav, I actually have a supposedly "used" deck. Hole punch through the cards.. and even a time/date stamp on a card insert with torn jokers....

And the casino uses the mirror peak. The cards DON'T have the black in the corners on the 10s. So they must be seeing the card value through the mirror, right? At least they arn't seeing black v. A.
Click to expand...
There are more than one system of peeks. All I can say is that the casinos are well aware of the risk of dealer tells, so I don't know why they would needlessly use a method that would present such a risk. Why not just ask the dealer what he can see and what he cannot see? Anything we say here is strictly speculation, although I repeat, it would not make sense for a casino to deliberately take on such a risk.
 
R

riggler

Active Member
#23
#23
aslan said:
There are more than one system of peeks. All I can say is that the casinos are well aware of the risk of dealer tells, so I don't know why they would needlessly use a method that would present such a risk. Why not just ask the dealer what he can see and what he cannot see? Anything we say here is strictly speculation, although I repeat, it would not make sense for a casino to deliberately take on such a risk.
Click to expand...
I'll do that on my next trip...which is this weekend, btw. Just looking at the cards ... I don't see how the store dealers can't see something. But it shows my lack of experience that I didn't even notice that my store didn't have the black corners until now.
 
S

shadroch

Well-Known Member
#24
#24
riggler said:
Ok, most of the casinos I've been in I've noticed what was said above about the black vs. A on the peek.

BUT...at a casino which is my fav, I actually have a supposedly "used" deck. Hole punch through the cards.. and even a time/date stamp on a card insert with torn jokers....

And the casino uses the mirror peak. The cards DON'T have the black in the corners on the 10s. So they must be seeing the card value through the mirror, right? At least they arn't seeing black v. A.
Click to expand...
If the casino is using a mirror, then the dealer has no idea what the card is if its not what he is looking for. This is just something you can accept as being true, or you can be a superstitious gambler reading tells that don't exist.
 
zengrifter

zengrifter

Banned
#25
#25
shadroch said:
If the casino is using a mirror, then the dealer has no idea what the card is if its not what he is looking for. This is just something you can accept as being true, or you can be a superstitious gambler reading tells that don't exist.
Click to expand...
When the casino uses the wrong cards it may make a difference.
I don't know, lets ask ExCAA. zg
 
W

WRX

Well-Known Member
#26
#26
riggler said:
And the casino uses the mirror peak. The cards DON'T have the black in the corners on the 10s. So they must be seeing the card value through the mirror, right?
Click to expand...
Incorrect. There are many pairings of card styles and readers on the market. A very common card style is the high-low deck, aka Reno deck. With these, the indexes on the ten-value cards are high, the indexes on all other cards are low, and aces have four indexes. These are used with a mirror device for peeking that gives the dealer no information beyond the dealer's hand being or not being a natural. (If the device is used correctly.) A variation is that instead of additional indexes, the aces may have special symbols, usually a logo for the casino, in the corners that don't have indexes.

A few casinos use optical character recognition systems that can read the indexes of decks with no special features.

All I'm going to say is, know your decks, but it's usually for reasons other than getting info from a dealer who learns the value of a hole card.
 
Sharky

Sharky

Well-Known Member
#28
#28
you mean like the time Caesar's mistakenly used Pinochle cards at the BJ table?

what a shoe:whip::whip::whip::whip::whip:
 
zengrifter

zengrifter

Banned
#29
#29
Sharky said:
you mean like the time Caesar's mistakenly used Pinochle cards at the BJ table?

what a shoe:whip::whip::whip::whip::whip:
Click to expand...
:laugh::laugh:Exactly! But I don't know for sure. Waiting for an expert comment.
I know I have seen apparent tells in that situation, like a dealer who peeks twice consistently when he has a 2 under, using the mirror?? This and other "random noise" I too have experienced.

I can explain the "tell" - when the dealer cannot "see" (with eyes presumeably) yet unconsciously knows some information that skews his behavior somehow. The rest I'll save for Voodoo or Zzone. zg
 
B

Brock Windsor

Well-Known Member
#32
#32
zengrifter said:
No one? zg
Click to expand...
This week I saw a table using poker cards on a pitch BJ game. The dealer has to rotate the T's and the A's to peek and all indexes are raised. First time I had ever seen that. I could not pick up any tells though have no experience with such.
-BW
 
B

Brock Windsor

Well-Known Member
#34
#34
Sucker said:
Can you explain the difference between "poker" cards and "blackjack" cards?
Click to expand...
The most important difference as it relates to this thread is that a poker deck (for any game) has all the index numbers at the same level in the top corner whereas a Blackjack deck only has the Tens appear in the uppermost corner with all the other index numbers appearing slightly lower (so that the index will not be visible in the peeking mirror unless it is a Ten).
In this particular case the casino was using poker room cards (which are actually bridge sized - narrower - and usually bordered). Most poker cards on the gaming floor for use in poker carnival games are the standard poker wide which is also the typical width of the cards used for blackjack.
-BW
 
B

Brock Windsor

Well-Known Member
#36
#36
amarillo slick said:
it doesn't matter how they react, they have already asked the patrons if they want insurance before they check
Click to expand...
Think on that.
What if the dealer peeks his ten three times to make sure it is indeed a four under there and not the ace? Would you play your hand the same way? If you would then it doesn't matter.
-BW
 
R

riggler

Active Member
#37
#37
After further analysis of the deck I have from my store, the dealer is indeed able to get the information and only the information they need to know if they turn or don't turn the cards in the proper fasion (depending on if they have a 10 or an A up). That's both neat and unfortuante as it show the ingenious of casinos that I'd never really realized before and because there is no way a dealer can have a tell unless turn or don't turn the cards when they are supposed to do the opposite.


Either way, it's pretty cool how the casinos have so many protections in place.
 
zengrifter

zengrifter

Banned
#38
#38
Brock Windsor said:
This week I saw a table using poker cards on a pitch BJ game.
Click to expand...
No 'real' professional experts have yet offered any commentary as to the efficacy
of possible tells arising from the use of incorrect decks with mirror-type readers.* zg

* Except that its "just exploiting random noise"
 
S

Sucker

Well-Known Member
#39
#39
zengrifter said:
No 'real' professional experts have yet offered any commentary as to the efficacy
of possible tells arising from the use of incorrect decks with mirror-type readers.* zg

* Except that its "just exploiting random noise"
Click to expand...
And for good reason.... This thread has started to become rather amusing:rolleyes:
 
zengrifter

zengrifter

Banned
#40
#40
Sucker said:
And for good reason.... This thread has started to become rather amusing:rolleyes:
Click to expand...
Either there is no basis whatsoever to the theory, or the top "professional-expert(s)" here cannot be relied upon to provide an accurate response, and may even chime in on occasion with disinfo, as right he/they may, one can suppose.

BTW, philosophically speaking, its ALL random noise. Cape'ce? zg
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top