I haven't been playing blackjack but a few months, but I've etched bs into my brain and have been looking at counting. I tried hi-lo but found it very difficult and decided to start small and work up to it by learning Renzeys Ace/10 count to get a feel for keeping track of the cards in general. I am usually within 1 or 2 of the correct count if I'm not right on but the deck estimation is killing me. I seem to not be getting any better at it. I'm kind of stuck on how to practice this skill. Any advice or other publications that focus on this? Thanks for any help - Stylee
Deck estimation
- Thread starter Stylee
- Start date
Casino Verite software. You can practice everything with it man. It's definitely helped improve my skills as far as sim's go.
Plenty of options so that you can pretty much set up any type of casino scenario and prepare for it. Anything from game rules to casino heat. Hell it'll even let you know if you know BS as well as you think you do (not saying you don't). Highly recommended by this noob!
Just realized I sound like an advertisement. hah:cool2:
Plenty of options so that you can pretty much set up any type of casino scenario and prepare for it. Anything from game rules to casino heat. Hell it'll even let you know if you know BS as well as you think you do (not saying you don't). Highly recommended by this noob!
Just realized I sound like an advertisement. hah:cool2:
that might be best at first. one thing you can do is go out and buy maybe ten decks of those cheap dollar store cards. they are a bit off from regular casino cards but they should be ok for this purpose. take four decks and pile them up. then three decks and pile them up. then two decks and pile them up and one deck and pile it up. line those piles up next to one another in that order and set them some where that you spend a lot of time. maybe do this with another ten decks and set them in another location. so through out the day your gonna for one thing see these decks as you do what ever and your gonna become very familiar with that sight. other times your gonna look at those piles and your gonna say to your self. this is one deck. this is two decks this is three decks. this is four decks. after a while your gonna get to know what's what when you see it.
other what they do is practice cutting say a deck of cards out of a pack of say six decks ect.
other what they do is practice cutting say a deck of cards out of a pack of say six decks ect.
The other problem with an unbalanced count is that it's more difficult to get up and leave when the count goes negative.
There's no substitute for real-deck practicing for deck estimation. The only caveat I would make is that you should splurge and buy used decks from a casino rather than the cheapest possible - the cheap decks are often thinner than normal and also used decks tend to be a little thicker than new decks.
There's no substitute for real-deck practicing for deck estimation. The only caveat I would make is that you should splurge and buy used decks from a casino rather than the cheapest possible - the cheap decks are often thinner than normal and also used decks tend to be a little thicker than new decks.
6 Deck discard tray: $8.00
http://www.amazon.com/Deck-clear-acrylic-blackjack-discard/dp/B000G623BW/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=sporting-goods&qid=1207690715&sr=8-3
13 decks of cards: $13.00
(Dead link: http://www.amazon.com/Bakers-Dozen-Decks-Different-Casinos/dp/B000G9Y3GC/ref=sr_1_13?ie=UTF8&s=toys-and-games&qid=1207690798&sr=8-13)
Cut Cards: $2.00
(Dead link: http://www.amazon.com/Professional-Quality-Casino-Card-Poker/dp/B000ZQDUW4/ref=pd_bbs_1?ie=UTF8&s=sporting-goods&qid=1207690880&sr=8-1)
Practicing with real, live cards in your hand: Priceless (and cheap)
ok - in all seriousness, im just going to paraphrase a method i read in Blackbelt in blackjack many moons ago which helped me get my estimation down (in addition to using CVBJ for the first few hours of practicing estimation):
take 6 decks (or 1 or 2 or 8), pile them together, and then number them in the corners with marker from 1 through 312 (or 52 or 104 or 416). stick them all in the discard tray
practice sticking the cut card into the stack of decks sitting in the discard tray, first aiming for 1D increments, then half deck increments (and then quarter deck increments if you so please). in other words, try and cut one deck from the bottom, then 2, 3, etc. then try 1, 1.5, 2, 2.5, 3, etc. take a look at the number written on the card right below your cut card to check your estimate. if you are trying for 2 decks for instance, you should see 104 on the card right below your cut card.
once you can do this, just randomly remove varying chunks of cards from the top of the stack and estimate what you see sitting in the tray. take a look at the number written on the top card of the remaining pile to check your estimate.
with a little practice you can get accurate down to quarter deck if you choose. quarter deck is recommended for single/double deck while half deck is what i recommend for shoes (though plenty of ppl use full deck estimates until the last deck or two of a shoe).
finally, if you buy enough decks as previously suggested, you can just create permanent piles of 1 deck, 1.5 decks, 2 decks, etc. just keep them around your house/apartment and keep staring at them and your eyes will callibrate.
in all honesty, after only a day or two of staring at these things i bet you can pretty accurately estimate them to at least a half deck.
http://www.amazon.com/Deck-clear-acrylic-blackjack-discard/dp/B000G623BW/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=sporting-goods&qid=1207690715&sr=8-3
13 decks of cards: $13.00
(Dead link: http://www.amazon.com/Bakers-Dozen-Decks-Different-Casinos/dp/B000G9Y3GC/ref=sr_1_13?ie=UTF8&s=toys-and-games&qid=1207690798&sr=8-13)
Cut Cards: $2.00
(Dead link: http://www.amazon.com/Professional-Quality-Casino-Card-Poker/dp/B000ZQDUW4/ref=pd_bbs_1?ie=UTF8&s=sporting-goods&qid=1207690880&sr=8-1)
Practicing with real, live cards in your hand: Priceless (and cheap)
ok - in all seriousness, im just going to paraphrase a method i read in Blackbelt in blackjack many moons ago which helped me get my estimation down (in addition to using CVBJ for the first few hours of practicing estimation):
take 6 decks (or 1 or 2 or 8), pile them together, and then number them in the corners with marker from 1 through 312 (or 52 or 104 or 416). stick them all in the discard tray
practice sticking the cut card into the stack of decks sitting in the discard tray, first aiming for 1D increments, then half deck increments (and then quarter deck increments if you so please). in other words, try and cut one deck from the bottom, then 2, 3, etc. then try 1, 1.5, 2, 2.5, 3, etc. take a look at the number written on the card right below your cut card to check your estimate. if you are trying for 2 decks for instance, you should see 104 on the card right below your cut card.
once you can do this, just randomly remove varying chunks of cards from the top of the stack and estimate what you see sitting in the tray. take a look at the number written on the top card of the remaining pile to check your estimate.
with a little practice you can get accurate down to quarter deck if you choose. quarter deck is recommended for single/double deck while half deck is what i recommend for shoes (though plenty of ppl use full deck estimates until the last deck or two of a shoe).
finally, if you buy enough decks as previously suggested, you can just create permanent piles of 1 deck, 1.5 decks, 2 decks, etc. just keep them around your house/apartment and keep staring at them and your eyes will callibrate.
in all honesty, after only a day or two of staring at these things i bet you can pretty accurately estimate them to at least a half deck.
Sometimes bought cards could be a different thickness than casino cards. Then they fluff up anyway the more they are used. Don't waste any money on it.
As long as you're close it really doesn't make much difference anyway. Usually estimating to 1 deck is fine.
Or multiply the people at table by 2.7 cards per person per round. Then use chips for number of rounds played.
Ultimate fallback, stand behind a table and count 52, 104 etc cards dealt and look at discard tray to get an idea of the thickness of a deck.
As long as you're close it really doesn't make much difference anyway. Usually estimating to 1 deck is fine.
Or multiply the people at table by 2.7 cards per person per round. Then use chips for number of rounds played.
Ultimate fallback, stand behind a table and count 52, 104 etc cards dealt and look at discard tray to get an idea of the thickness of a deck.
Unbalanced systems work best near the pivot, which for Red 7 is +2 and for KO is +4. As you move away from the pivot, the running count no longer matches the true count.
When the true count is negative, the running count could be almost anything below the pivot. Likewise, when the running count is negative, the true count could actually be positive but below the pivot.
Think about it another way if it helps - for unbalanced systems, you START the running count extremely negative. If you set a cutoff for when you're going to get up and walk away, you have to set it below your starting point. The other alternative is to have different cutoffs depending on how many decks have been played - but then you negate the main advantage of the unbalanced system, which is that you don't have to estimate decks played.
When the true count is negative, the running count could be almost anything below the pivot. Likewise, when the running count is negative, the true count could actually be positive but below the pivot.
Think about it another way if it helps - for unbalanced systems, you START the running count extremely negative. If you set a cutoff for when you're going to get up and walk away, you have to set it below your starting point. The other alternative is to have different cutoffs depending on how many decks have been played - but then you negate the main advantage of the unbalanced system, which is that you don't have to estimate decks played.