Hello all. I've been seeking my career for a few years now, but a 9-5 just isn't me. I tried poker somewhat but that didn't work due to admitted personal flaws. I'm considering giving blackjack a go as I'm able to control those flaws. My worry comes from the fact that being disabled makes me vastly more noticeable than the average joe. Would this prohibit my trying to be an AP player?
Disabled AP player possible?
- Thread starter Artfulpen
- Start date
I only see one drawback to a readily noticeable disability. If you are ID'ed, it will be easier to remember you and easier to spot you in the future. Other than that, you might look at it as a benefit. When the pit guys see you, they will not think AP, they will think [whatever your disability is]. It's like hiding in plain view.
A crip! You have a future in holecarding! A wheelchair is so valuable for this technique that people who don't need them have used them.
While speed and mobility are assets in AP, your low viewing position and privileges afforded to the disabled are surely bigger assets. If I were a casino manager, I'd be scared to death to back you off or eject you. A Federal judge will ream them a new one if he is convinced they are excluding the disabled.
Recommend you invest in one of the Grosjean books and, well, let's roll! :toast:
While speed and mobility are assets in AP, your low viewing position and privileges afforded to the disabled are surely bigger assets. If I were a casino manager, I'd be scared to death to back you off or eject you. A Federal judge will ream them a new one if he is convinced they are excluding the disabled.
Recommend you invest in one of the Grosjean books and, well, let's roll! :toast:
Wisely, everyone here has taken a positive approach and that goes to life in general-- when life gives you lemons, make lemonade.
I like the fact that everyone is accentuating the positive, and it's all true, but I don't see a casino playing around too much once they determine you are using HC techniques and doing so effectively. "Sir, you can play any game in the house but these" comes to mind. That is not ejection, only equal treatment for equal disqualifications. Of course, once ID'ed, the more logical course of action would be to change the dealer, then decide if you merit backing off, inspect your ID and all that. Even a midget cannot take advantage of a competent dealer. Unfortunately, what house thinks logically?
I think you should go full steam ahead in pursuit of an AP career, but always keeping in mind that you must exercise more caution than the average AP for the sake of longevity. Also, you have been pointed to a technique that fits your disability, but you must make sure you are comfortable with HC-- not everyone is. Also, keep in mind that the wheelchair is a well known ploy, so it might even have the reverse effect by putting you under extra scrutiny if sitting at the right spot.
Art, if you like blackjack and you can master one of the AP techniques, go for it. Even the best get caught. Play unrated. There must be hundreds of electric wheelchairs buzzing around the casinos as we speak. I never fail to see several every time I visit a casino.
And the involuntary movements can aid you as a ready distraction when needed by adding a few voluntary ones at the right time. Nothing will take the pit's mind off catching APs faster than such a distraction as he prays you don't tip over the coffee conspicuously set in front of you.
Also, have you ever noticed that people with disabilities are often treated as if invisible? A blind beggar can sit on the sidewalk on a busy street and hardly anyone will take notice. Most will look the other way, almost involuntarily, because they don't want to see. Even in the casino, those who do "see" are usually the ones who are sympathetic, and what they see is a guy who has enough gumption to get out and enjoy himself, not a clever AP with a disability.
I like the fact that everyone is accentuating the positive, and it's all true, but I don't see a casino playing around too much once they determine you are using HC techniques and doing so effectively. "Sir, you can play any game in the house but these" comes to mind. That is not ejection, only equal treatment for equal disqualifications. Of course, once ID'ed, the more logical course of action would be to change the dealer, then decide if you merit backing off, inspect your ID and all that. Even a midget cannot take advantage of a competent dealer. Unfortunately, what house thinks logically?
I think you should go full steam ahead in pursuit of an AP career, but always keeping in mind that you must exercise more caution than the average AP for the sake of longevity. Also, you have been pointed to a technique that fits your disability, but you must make sure you are comfortable with HC-- not everyone is. Also, keep in mind that the wheelchair is a well known ploy, so it might even have the reverse effect by putting you under extra scrutiny if sitting at the right spot.
Art, if you like blackjack and you can master one of the AP techniques, go for it. Even the best get caught. Play unrated. There must be hundreds of electric wheelchairs buzzing around the casinos as we speak. I never fail to see several every time I visit a casino.
And the involuntary movements can aid you as a ready distraction when needed by adding a few voluntary ones at the right time. Nothing will take the pit's mind off catching APs faster than such a distraction as he prays you don't tip over the coffee conspicuously set in front of you.
Also, have you ever noticed that people with disabilities are often treated as if invisible? A blind beggar can sit on the sidewalk on a busy street and hardly anyone will take notice. Most will look the other way, almost involuntarily, because they don't want to see. Even in the casino, those who do "see" are usually the ones who are sympathetic, and what they see is a guy who has enough gumption to get out and enjoy himself, not a clever AP with a disability.
I’m not sure how I feel about this notion of holecarding. Certainly, I think lower vantage point would help. However I don’t want you to get the impression from this thread that if you sit on a wheelchair, you’ll frequently be able to get a read. Well… not quite. I’ve never used a wheelchair for any purpose, but it’s not just a matter of how high your eye level is. Speaking in terms of my experience, flashing games that I’ve played in the past, the reason I found those games in the first place is because I scouted a lot and that meant footwork. I don’t mind scouting at all. In fact I enjoy them and I’m not sure whether that sentiment is applicable to most people. Admittedly, most dealers fall into some sort of categories, but they really are unique and watching their signatures amuses me a good deal. Given a choice of being allowed to lower my eye level by one inch and being able to scout 3 more dealers, I’d choose the latter. Which brings me to the next point: opportunity cost.
Here's an example. Let’s say that you’re on the strip. Suppose you have a possible holecarding game for blackjack during night shift on a weekend at MGM but this dealer is inconsistent. There’s a 100% OCP game at CP during the same time but you just can’t distinguish their novelty paints to save your life. Them Cleopatra. It’s 7:15 PM on that night when you have your game. You’re in Bellagio. What do you do?
Here's an example. Let’s say that you’re on the strip. Suppose you have a possible holecarding game for blackjack during night shift on a weekend at MGM but this dealer is inconsistent. There’s a 100% OCP game at CP during the same time but you just can’t distinguish their novelty paints to save your life. Them Cleopatra. It’s 7:15 PM on that night when you have your game. You’re in Bellagio. What do you do?
No way! you think OCP is worse than counting? yea the variance sux but the N0 is to die for. roughly 1000 N0. what counting game offers that? I will say that it's nice if you can find a place that allows you to count in peace, and play for few hours on end, vs. constant hours of scouting on OCP, only to get yerass kicked.
Probably what I would do as well though for a different reason. I also see that I didn’t make my point clear in my post. I was strictly talking about flashing games that may or may not be more accessible from the wheelchair. Any other facets I leave no comment as I have absolutely no knowledge on the implications.
Simply put if my mobility is compromised, though I don't know to what extent, and consequently number of dealers scouted decreases, I would hardly consider that to be a comparative advantage. Consider this also. How long would you get to count in there? You could count for a while and head over to play OCP. Except that by the time you get to your dealer after your counting session is done you’re probably 3 hrs into the dealer’s shift considering the distance and here’s another big nuance: weekend night. With plenty of headroom at MGM it may or may not be easy to discretely wait for the seat with plenty of people occupying table games while maintaining close enough distance to it. Or with the alternative, it’s not really all that impossible to wait another hour or so to get to that OCP game.
Now what. I just wasted quite some time going back and forth, had to carry more money to play because I’m carrying MGM chips on top of the money for CP game. I think this impossibility of being physically present in more than one location is one of the big penalties of playing alone. There are times that I almost wish I could multiply myself.
Simply put if my mobility is compromised, though I don't know to what extent, and consequently number of dealers scouted decreases, I would hardly consider that to be a comparative advantage. Consider this also. How long would you get to count in there? You could count for a while and head over to play OCP. Except that by the time you get to your dealer after your counting session is done you’re probably 3 hrs into the dealer’s shift considering the distance and here’s another big nuance: weekend night. With plenty of headroom at MGM it may or may not be easy to discretely wait for the seat with plenty of people occupying table games while maintaining close enough distance to it. Or with the alternative, it’s not really all that impossible to wait another hour or so to get to that OCP game.
Now what. I just wasted quite some time going back and forth, had to carry more money to play because I’m carrying MGM chips on top of the money for CP game. I think this impossibility of being physically present in more than one location is one of the big penalties of playing alone. There are times that I almost wish I could multiply myself.
Who is paying you for those hours of scouting? Plus you are getting 20 hands per hour max when you get in a game, and it is rare for a game to last more than an hour. It can disappear in an instant, and then more unpaid scouting.
Sure, if I see OCP I'll sit down (or in my case, lay down
) and play it, but no way am I going out looking for that crap. If my BR allows for it, I'd rather find a 0.5% VP opportunity and bust out 1000 hands per hour, any time I want, with nobody getting in my way.
Sure, if I see OCP I'll sit down (or in my case, lay down
) and play it, but no way am I going out looking for that crap. If my BR allows for it, I'd rather find a 0.5% VP opportunity and bust out 1000 hands per hour, any time I want, with nobody getting in my way.
Automatic Monkey said:
Who is paying you for those hours of scouting? Plus you are getting 20 hands per hour max when you get in a game, and it is rare for a game to last more than an hour. It can disappear in an instant, and then more unpaid scouting.
Sure, if I see OCP I'll sit down (or in my case, lay down) and play it, but no way am I going out looking for that crap. If my BR allows for it, I'd rather find a 0.5% VP opportunity and bust out 1000 hands per hour, any time I want, with nobody getting in my way.
Sure, if I see OCP I'll sit down (or in my case, lay down
) and play it, but no way am I going out looking for that crap. If my BR allows for it, I'd rather find a 0.5% VP opportunity and bust out 1000 hands per hour, any time I want, with nobody getting in my way.
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