Do Blackjack Machines cheat or play fair?

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Ronnie

Active Member
#1
#1
Not taking into account the built-in house edge, as I noted in my post from Sunday about Bally's Multi-Play Blackjack machine, I am curious about something else .....

Are blackjack machines honest?

I ask this because the thought occurred to me that it would be very easy to program a machine in such a way to allow the dealer to "just happen to" get more "make" cards than "break" cards.

In other words, to cheat!

Do they cheat?

My gut feeling is that the answer is NO, that in fact machines do play legitimately, and that the only house edge is in the series of rules that are poor for the player.

Is my gut feeling correct?

(I am hoping that someone here knows for certain.)

I don't mind investing a small amount of money playing a machine with poor odds -- for entertainment value -- if the machine plays fairly.

If it does not play fairly then that's a whole different story.
 
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shadroch

Well-Known Member
#2
#2
That is a good question. I've often wondered how they work. Are they programed like slot machines that a win or a loss is predetermined,or is it a random flow of cards.
For example-you have a 16. You choose to hit and get a ten.Bust.
But had you chose to stand,does that 10 automaticly go to the dealer or would he get a card based on if you set to win or lose?

I've noticed when my GF plays video keno,she might play a number 20 times in a row without it hitting,but when she goes off it ,it hits.
Keno machines,from what I understand,predetermine the amount of hits you will get in a given hand. Whatever numbers you play are meaningless,you'll get the number of hits the machine determines.

BJ might be the same.
 
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Preston

Well-Known Member
#3
#3
I am going out on a limb here with this but I read somewhere (I want to say AMerican Casino guide) that video poker is supposed to be randomly drawn cards but places have been caught in the past controlling how many hands hit and what cards come out next. Technically the latter is said to be illegal.

I think what you shoudl really do here is quit playing this stupid machine. Not necessarily 'cuz it's rigged tho. You are having too many superstitions and you might make bonehead plays as a result..

Or another fact to consider...

Your instinct is telling you not to.
 
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shadroch

Well-Known Member
#4
#4
Video BJ has a much higher payback percentage than most slots or VP games.While bad compared to table BJ,keep in mind that you can play it for as little as 25 cents a hand(while quickly sucking down premium liquors) and you are getting slot points towards your comps. Its not a terrible game.
 
Sonny

Sonny

Well-Known Member
#6
#6
Ronnie said:
Are blackjack machines honest?
Click to expand...
Well, yes and no.

If you look at the rules on the machine then you can often find terrible rules like blackjacks paying even money, the dealer wins ties, splits not being allowed or some other crazy rule. Obviously these rules will benefit the house greatly. In that sense, calling the game ‘blackjack’ is a lie.

And yes, it would be very easy to set up those machines to play unfairly. I don’t think there have been any documented cases of them being set up to cheat, but to rule it out would be quite naive.

I guess the question becomes “Why would you want to play them?” They do not offer an advantage, they are often much worse than regular BJ, and they may be cheating. There is simply no benefit to playing them.

-Sonny-
 
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Ronnie

Active Member
#9
#9
xfiles said:
they Cheat !!!
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Hi Xfiles!

If they do cheat as you say then I am wondering if it violates any federal or state regulations.

This of course applies to Video Poker machines as well.

Is there any law preventing cards being adjusted to benefit the house?

My definition of cheating here would be the machine replacing a card that is supposed to be dealt which would have made the house a loser with a different card that makes the house a winner.
 
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bluewhale

Well-Known Member
#10
#10
i think this is very important. too many ppl on this forum worry about completely irrelevant things. none of us have the time to figure out how to play every casino game. theres no point. this extra thinking is -EV. look for an opportunity and seize it, stop wasting your time on things like this that don't matter.

Sonny said:
Well, yes and no.

If you look at the rules on the machine then you can often find terrible rules like blackjacks paying even money, the dealer wins ties, splits not being allowed or some other crazy rule. Obviously these rules will benefit the house greatly. In that sense, calling the game ‘blackjack’ is a lie.

And yes, it would be very easy to set up those machines to play unfairly. I don’t think there have been any documented cases of them being set up to cheat, but to rule it out would be quite naive.

I guess the question becomes “Why would you want to play them?” They do not offer an advantage, they are often much worse than regular BJ, and they may be cheating. There is simply no benefit to playing them.

-Sonny-
Click to expand...
 
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dacium

Well-Known Member
#11
#11
I thought they always thought people who think they are cheating were just crazy until I started trying to find the delay on some machines in australia.

I have now dropped 50 units ($500) 8 times over at the Jupiter's casino at the gold coast. The total hands played is about 2,500. I was counting alot of hands and trying to determine latency on these machines. This alone is enough to get to me, I think it was 5 or 7 standard deviations to loose 400 units in 2500 hands but alas, that wasn't counting the variance as I do admit I lost alot of doubled split hands.

What I noticed is that the cards continually came in clumps of mainly highs and then mainly lows. This seemed to be happening at every table with the machines. At first I thought maybe huge clumps were being delayed but this quickly proved false as I saw the same thing at many tables. I resorted to counting ace/tens vs cards out trying to get 3 more lows per 13 but ended up at about 4, but only after the last 50 or so hands. Enough to have me think that they are fucking everyone over.

In australia blackjack has the lowest house edge of all the games by miles if you play correctly, and this is probably how they squeeze everyone out.
 
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shadroch

Well-Known Member
#12
#12
I guess the question becomes “Why would you want to play them?” They do not offer an advantage, they are often much worse than regular BJ, and they may be cheating. There is simply no benefit to playing them.

-Sonny-[/QUOTE]

If the casino allows you to use free slot play dollars on the video BJ machines,it can be a great benefit.There is much less variance on these than on a slot or video poker machine.
In the Playboy Club,you can pay $13 for a Heiniken or toss $20 in one of the bartop machines and play $2 a hand for long enough to down a few beers.
 
ChefJJ

ChefJJ

Well-Known Member
#13
#13
Is the discussion about the video-BJ machines that are like video poker machines, or the "digital BJ" machines like the ones in Cherokee?

They both suck, just one more than the other.
 
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ScottH

Well-Known Member
#14
#14
shadroch said:
If the casino allows you to use free slot play dollars on the video BJ machines,it can be a great benefit.There is much less variance on these than on a slot or video poker machine.
In the Playboy Club,you can pay $13 for a Heiniken or toss $20 in one of the bartop machines and play $2 a hand for long enough to down a few beers.
Click to expand...
I still wouldn't pay 20 dollars for a couple beers! 13 dollars for a beer? Ridiculous...
 
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Cardcounter

Well-Known Member
#15
#15
Video blackjack is terrible.

Video Blackjack is terrible compared to table blackjack some machines won't let you split a pair or double down, and on top of that a blackjack pays even money. With all of those poor rules you will lose regardless if the machine is legit or not. I think that those machines cheapen blackjack make it less fun and don't give those players incentive to step up to the tables where the real money is.

If the casino offered machines with the same rules that they have at the table even though I wouldn't be able to beat them because the deck would be shuffled every hand I would personally play them because they are fun to play.
 
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KenoPal

New Member
#16
#16
Video Blackjack w/favorable rules

I've found some video blackjack machines that play single deck, S17, D10, and DAS. MUCH better than the live games (where they use 6 decks minimum, and the dealer hits on soft 17).

The only negatives with the video blackjack are: the deck is re-shuffled each hand, and they pay 2 to 1 for blackjack (but much better than the even money I've seen on some machines). And, of course, IF the machine is set to cheat. From the comments, I suspect no one actually has any proof, they just suspect it from the way the cards are dealt. But I've had the same feelings at times playing at the tables! [I suspect they don't need to set the machines to cheat, since many people I see playing casual blackjack don't play correctly.]

I feel these video blackjack machines, with their favorable rules, are possibly better than the table blackjack offered. Especially since I can play them with much less money ($.25 to $5 per bet, as opposed to the minimum $15 bet at the casinos close to me). I welcome comments!
 
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ScottH

Well-Known Member
#17
#17
KenoPal said:
I've found some video blackjack machines that play single deck, S17, D10, DAS, Early Surrender, and pay 2 to 1 for blackjack. MUCH better than the live games (where they use 6 decks minimum, pay 3 to 2, and the dealer hits on soft 17).

The only negative with the video blackjact is the deck is re-shuffled each hand. And of course, IF the machine is set to cheat. But I suspect they don't need to set the machines to cheat, since most people I see playing blackjack don't play correctly.

I feel these video blackjack machines, with their favorable rules, are much better than the table blackjack offered. I welcome comments.
Click to expand...
Are you sure they pay 2 to 1 for blackjacks? I'll bet they pay "2 for 1", which is actually even money.
 
ihate17

ihate17

Well-Known Member
#19
#19
different languages

A video blackjack machine should pay 5/2 to be equal to a table paying 3/2.
The difference between machine and table language is what fools most players.
On the machine you have $10, you bet $2, your credits go down to 8, you get a blackjack (2-1 machine language) and they give you 4 new credits, so your total is now 12.
On the table you have $10, you bet $2, you get a blackjack so the dealer places $3 additional next to your original $2, so your total is now $13.

Had the machine paid you 5 instead of 4, the amount would be equal.

ihate17
 
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GeorgeD

Well-Known Member
#20
#20
By "cheat" I take it people mean does it pre-determine if you will win or lose and deal the cards accordingly. Pretty much what a slot machine does ... the reels are just for entertainment. That's not really *cheating*, but it's just putting a different face on a slot machine and misleading people. What would really suck about that is it would have no chance of a big bonus like slots, so I would hope it at least pasys off more

If the machine shuffles and puts cards in a queue so whoever takes the next hit gets whatever card is next, then it's just like a dealt BJ game except for the shuffle. As said they still suck since they usually pay 2 for 1 on BJ and may allow splits only on 9-11.

Maybe a way to practice BJ cheaper, but considering how much faster you can play a hand compared to a table, you may pump more money/ hour through a $1 machine than a $5 table.
 
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