Do you split 4's ever?

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stinkus

Member
#1
#1
I know that this seems like a silly question. But as long as i have played blackjack and checked basic strategy cards they all ahve said to never split 4's however lately i have heard a few people say that you should split 4's agains a dealer 5 or 6.

Searching online has not helped me as i have found some sites that say to split the 4's against a 5 or 6 while others say to simply hit it.

I play in AC with standard ac rules, 8 Decks, S17, DA2, DAS.

So what is the correct BS play on 4's against a 5 or 6?

Thanks,
Stinkus
 
sagefr0g

sagefr0g

Well-Known Member
#3
#3
stinkus said:
I know that this seems like a silly question. But as long as i have played blackjack and checked basic strategy cards they all ahve said to never split 4's however lately i have heard a few people say that you should split 4's agains a dealer 5 or 6.

Searching online has not helped me as i have found some sites that say to split the 4's against a 5 or 6 while others say to simply hit it.

I play in AC with standard ac rules, 8 Decks, S17, DA2, DAS.

So what is the correct BS play on 4's against a 5 or 6?

Thanks,
Stinkus
Click to expand...
yep there are appropriate times to split 4's as a correct basic strategy play. it has to do with if the rules allow doubling after splitting. check the charts for the case of DAS and you should see it for i know at least 6D games. i think it would be appropriate for the game you outline above. not really sure.
oh yeah here it is see link:
http://wizardofodds.com/blackjack/strategy/4deck.html
best regards,
mr fr0g :D
 
Last edited:
T

tedloc

Well-Known Member
#4
#4
stinkus said:
Searching online has not helped me as i have found some sites that say to split the 4's against a 5 or 6 while others say to simply hit it.

I play in AC with standard ac rules, 8 Decks, S17, DA2, DAS.

So what is the correct BS play on 4's against a 5 or 6?

Thanks,
Stinkus
Click to expand...
Split the 4's vs. 5/6 if you can double after the split. You should only double 4/4 vs 7 or less in a SINGLE deck game, where the dealer stays on soft 17.
 
ihate17

ihate17

Well-Known Member
#5
#5
Turn the basic strategy card over

I am sitting in a Vegas casino and I split my 4's vs a dealer 6. Rookie player with a brand new BS card, says, 'it says here to just hit that". I tell him, "turn the card over!"
Some cards are different, but on most there is a section of rules when double after split is not allowed and a different section for when it is allowed.

It follows fairly logically. An 18 is a poor hand. It only wins if the dealer busts or gets 17, and computers have proven out that the average winning hand is an 18.4 or something. So doubling a pair of 4's is a bad bet. Splitting against a 5 or 6, becomes a very good bet because with an Ace, 5, 6, or 7 you have a chance of doubling again, a 4 you split again, 2 or 3 you hit again and that is 7 cards that either help or not hurt you. Of course much of your bet is based upon the fact that a dealer showing a 5 or 6 will bust quite often. You do not split when the dealer is showing 2,3,and 4, simply because the added win percentage given for a dealer bust on 5 or 6 is reduced by enough with a 2,3, or 4 showing, that the play is no longer worth a split with the chance of a double.

Now if you own a single deck basic strategy card there might not be another side because double after split is very rare in single deck games. Also, as far as these cards go, several Vegas casinos in the past sold versions of cards in their gift shops that did not match any of the games that the casino dealt. Obviously, just a simple coincedence.

ihate17
 
tribute

tribute

Well-Known Member
#8
#8
Splitting 4's

Why don't you just check out the charts on this site. They show you what to do with those 4's and everything else.
 
C

Cardcounter

Well-Known Member
#9
#9
Split 4's?

Most of the time you will not split 4's the only exception is against a 6 in a hit soft 17 game with doubling allowed after the split. Doubling after the split has to be allowed after the split or it is not a good play.
 
zengrifter

zengrifter

Banned
#10
#10
Cardcounter said:
Most of the time you will not split 4's the only exception is against a 6 in a hit soft 17 game with doubling allowed after the split. Doubling after the split has to be allowed after the split or it is not a good play.
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Is that your final answer? zg
 
tribute

tribute

Well-Known Member
#11
#11
Cardcounter said:
Most of the time you will not split 4's the only exception is against a 6 in a hit soft 17 game with doubling allowed after the split. Doubling after the split has to be allowed after the split or it is not a good play.
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You should also split four's against a FIVE in a S17 game where DAS is allowed. (Final answer, I think.)
 
C

Canceler

Well-Known Member
#13
#13
shadroch said:
Depends on the mood of the table. If everyone is happy and smiling,and third base is playing according to the book,why not.:devil:
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So the condition of the ashtrays doesn't figure into this, then? :confused:
 
C

Claza

Active Member
#14
#14
Canceler said:
So the condition of the ashtrays doesn't figure into this, then? :confused:
Click to expand...
Good luck finding an ashtray if you happen to play in the state of Washington...

But on a more serious note, everyone is making fun of Patterson for the "ashtray strategy", but I kind of liked his "Blackjack - A winner's handbook". He is not as flaky as people are painting him. Most of the advice he gives actually makes sense.
 
S

shadroch

Well-Known Member
#15
#15
Claza said:
Good luck finding an ashtray if you happen to play in the state of Washington...

But on a more serious note, everyone is making fun of Patterson for the "ashtray strategy", but I kind of liked his "Blackjack - A winner's handbook". He is not as flaky as people are painting him. Most of the advice he gives actually makes sense.
Click to expand...
Yes,he is.
Once upon a time you'd have been correct,but he went off the deep end after that book.
 
Sonny

Sonny

Well-Known Member
#16
#16
Claza said:
But on a more serious note, everyone is making fun of Patterson for the "ashtray strategy", but I kind of liked his "Blackjack - A winner's handbook". He is not as flaky as people are painting him. Most of the advice he gives actually makes sense.
Click to expand...
Actually, that book has a good section on shuffle tracking. It's not as good as some of the more reputable sources, but it gave me a good introduction to the topic when I was first starting out. Much of that book is garbage but there is some decent information in it. Unfortunately, the bad parts can be very destructive to a newbie so I don't recommend it. He suggests using a progression system against CSMs for goodness sake!

-Sonny-
 
S

shadroch

Well-Known Member
#17
#17
Its funny,because that was one of the first books I read on the game.Afterwards,my much more experianced friend warned me about JP and I pretty much forgot everything in the book,including shuffle tracking. For quite awhile,whenever someone mentioned shuffle tracking,I put it in the same catagory as " dirty ashtrays".
 
ThunderWalk

ThunderWalk

Well-Known Member
#18
#18
I forget where I read it, but for some reason I copied it down when I was memorizing the BS rules for splits.

"Hit on a pair of 4's unless the dealer shows a 5 or 6, in Vegas, always hit."

My question is:

What's different about the rule in Vegas? Isn't the rule the same anyplace you can double-after-splitting?
 
M

mdlbj

Well-Known Member
#19
#19
stinkus said:
I know that this seems like a silly question. But as long as i have played blackjack and checked basic strategy cards they all ahve said to never split 4's however lately i have heard a few people say that you should split 4's agains a dealer 5 or 6.

Searching online has not helped me as i have found some sites that say to split the 4's against a 5 or 6 while others say to simply hit it.

I play in AC with standard ac rules, 8 Decks, S17, DA2, DAS.

So what is the correct BS play on 4's against a 5 or 6?

Thanks,
Stinkus
Click to expand...
Look here.. http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bjbse.php
 
S

shadroch

Well-Known Member
#20
#20
ThunderWalk said:
I forget where I read it, but for some reason I copied it down when I was memorizing the BS rules for splits.

"Hit on a pair of 4's unless the dealer shows a 5 or 6, in Vegas, always hit."

My question is:

What's different about the rule in Vegas? Isn't the rule the same anyplace you can double-after-splitting?
Click to expand...

I'm guessing you remember only half the rule-that advice is for single deck games once common in Downtown Vegas.No double after a split.
 
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