Don't trust dealers with good shuffle techniques?

Gamblor

Gamblor

Well-Known Member
#1
#1
Played against a dealer with an well above average shuffling technique. This in conjunction with other characteristics of dealer made me wary of him, so much so that when I started going on an absurd winning streak, I began to deploy more -EV cover plays than normal.

Is this something others have generally noticed, that a dealer with a good shuffle technique tends to potentially be more knowledgeable about AP than others? Or overly paranoid on my part, and foolish on my part to utilize -EV cover plays?

The dealer was protecting the game pretty well, at first ;) But my dumb luck overwhelmed the game!
 
B

blackriver

Well-Known Member
#2
#2
it sounds ALMOST as if you are saying he knows your an AP and is giving you better cards to help you and your are afraid of conspiracy charges!

As far your actual point, better dealers are smarter dealers and smarter dealers are more dangerous, then yes. I would just try to say more stupid things at the table. cover plays are for surveillance, table pattern si for people like this. just talk about playing by feel and any other ploppy things.

recently some dude bought in for $500 at a euro game. the pit bos just kept saying $65 euro per $100 dollars. and no one could figure out what that came to, so the dealer, pit boss and players just kept repeating "$65 per $100". its taking forever, so finally i mumble "$325 yo". As my mouth opened i was sick to my stomache like "no no! shut up!"

they all just keep mumbling 65/$100....a minute later the pit boss gets out a calculator and says "ok....$325" but gives me the slightest glare as he leaves.
 
Gamblor

Gamblor

Well-Known Member
#4
#4
blackriver said:
it sounds ALMOST as if you are saying he knows your an AP and is giving you better cards to help you and your are afraid of conspiracy charges!

As far your actual point, better dealers are smarter dealers and smarter dealers are more dangerous, then yes. I would just try to say more stupid things at the table. cover plays are for surveillance, table pattern si for people like this. just talk about playing by feel and any other ploppy things.

recently some dude bought in for $500 at a euro game. the pit bos just kept saying $65 euro per $100 dollars. and no one could figure out what that came to, so the dealer, pit boss and players just kept repeating "$65 per $100". its taking forever, so finally i mumble "$325 yo". As my mouth opened i was sick to my stomache like "no no! shut up!"

they all just keep mumbling 65/$100....a minute later the pit boss gets out a calculator and says "ok....$325" but gives me the slightest glare as he leaves.
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As far as conspiracy, nothing overt, do try to influence, but that's as far as it goes ;)

Yeah, of course don't show any signs of intelligence. But even w/o talking about anything in particular or trying to act stupid, its difficult for an intelligent person to completely hide their intelligence.
 
Gamblor

Gamblor

Well-Known Member
#5
#5
zengrifter said:
no.
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Yep, 99.9999% of dealers I come across I have little concern, but someone with a well above average shuffle technique gives me a bit more of a concern. Not significant by itself, but this combined with other factors makes me a bit wary.
 
T

Thunder

Well-Known Member
#7
#7
Just to be clear, are we talking about shuffle technique as in how well the dealer mixes the cards or are we talking about shuffle technique as in the house ordered procedure for shuffling.
 
kewljason

kewljason

Well-Known Member
#8
#8
I would tend to think the opposite. A dealer that handles the cards with ease, represents expereience. If he has that much experience, why hasn't he advanced from the dealer position. There is a good chance that he doesn't aspire to go any further and has a very lackadaisical 'I don't care' attitude, which could make it beneficial to play with him. Ad that to the fact that with experience comes speed, and speed, means more money, I might just seek this fellow out. :)
 
B

Blue Efficacy

Well-Known Member
#9
#9
kewljason said:
I would tend to think the opposite. A dealer that handles the cards with ease, represents expereience. If he has that much experience, why hasn't he advanced from the dealer position. There is a good chance that he doesn't aspire to go any further and has a very lackadaisical 'I don't care' attitude, which could make it beneficial to play with him. Ad that to the fact that with experience comes speed, and speed, means more money, I might just seek this fellow out. :)
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You know, you make some good points..
 
blackchipjim

blackchipjim

Well-Known Member
#10
#10
Profiling dealers!

Yes Gamblor to me that is point on critique when you are scouting. Abilities of dealers vary but manual dexterity puts the dealer into certain category. I won't go into the nuiances of what you should look for in a dealer because I'm sure most of the proficient players already know what to look for and why. No I don't think you were made to be anything other than one lucky player unless there is more to the story than you posted.
 
exgriffinman

exgriffinman

Active Member
#11
#11
kewljason said:
I would tend to think the opposite. A dealer that handles the cards with ease, represents expereience. If he has that much experience, why hasn't he advanced from the dealer position. There is a good chance that he doesn't aspire to go any further and has a very lackadaisical 'I don't care' attitude, which could make it beneficial to play with him. Ad that to the fact that with experience comes speed, and speed, means more money, I might just seek this fellow out. :)
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One reason a dealer may not want to advance to a higher position is MONEY. In alot of cases dealers make more than Floorpersons hands down, but this depends on the house and the toke rate.

EXGM
 
Gamblor

Gamblor

Well-Known Member
#12
#12
Thunder said:
Just to be clear, are we talking about shuffle technique as in how well the dealer mixes the cards or are we talking about shuffle technique as in the house ordered procedure for shuffling.
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Yes most casinos train their staff in the same shuffle technique (although individual dealers are more thorough than others). But some casinos here in east have a mix of dealers due to what seems to be an exodus of dealers from AC, and not all seemed to be trained uniformly, also add in newly trained dealers.
 
Gamblor

Gamblor

Well-Known Member
#13
#13
blackchipjim said:
Yes Gamblor to me that is point on critique when you are scouting. Abilities of dealers vary but manual dexterity puts the dealer into certain category. I won't go into the nuiances of what you should look for in a dealer because I'm sure most of the proficient players already know what to look for and why. No I don't think you were made to be anything other than one lucky player unless there is more to the story than you posted.
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Yep understood, nope nothing much more to the story other than the dealer had certain characteristics (or as you mentioned profile) that would make me more wary of this dealer than others. You also bring up an interesting point about dexterity, I was thinking along the lines of what could be best described as professionalism.

Also, I'm not concerned at all with the fresh faced kid with the shaky hands dealing for the first time :laugh: Those on the other end of the spectrum I tend to be more on guard.
 
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blackchipjim

blackchipjim

Well-Known Member
#14
#14
Multi-taskers!

Some people can handle multiple tasks that take concentraiton and a dealer can wear down after a few hours of it. A dealer that starts fresh and perky and dazzles the players with raw effieciency in the start of the shift may tire quickly and fall off after only a few hours. I have had dealers that deal like meth heads when I played at their table in the morning then on a return trip thru played them again. The return trip's game was fraught with mistakes and other. I think the story of Turtle and the Hare falls into play here. Experienced dealers know they can't keep it up for long and learn to become steady and consistent so they don't burn themselves out!
 
Gamblor

Gamblor

Well-Known Member
#16
#16
blackchipjim said:
Some people can handle multiple tasks that take concentraiton and a dealer can wear down after a few hours of it. A dealer that starts fresh and perky and dazzles the players with raw effieciency in the start of the shift may tire quickly and fall off after only a few hours. I have had dealers that deal like meth heads when I played at their table in the morning then on a return trip thru played them again. The return trip's game was fraught with mistakes and other. I think the story of Turtle and the Hare falls into play here. Experienced dealers know they can't keep it up for long and learn to become steady and consistent so they don't burn themselves out!
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Yeah amazing how dealer condition effects them. Know a dealer who is normally error free, but put her on light meds for a cold, and she's making errors once every 3 or 4 hands.
 
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