Double Deck: Pitch vs. Shoe

[Blue Efficacy]

I played a pitch game for the first time this weekend after only playing face up shoe DD. I have to ask, what are the pros and cons of pitch vs. shoe DD? Which one do you guys generally like better? I like the pitch game myself. I am sure part of that is it is fun to handle the cards, especially since I've never done it before.

I also found it a lot easier to count, I'd count each hand as the dealer was paying/collecting on them. I can see why a lot of people would think it's nice to see the cards that round for the whole table before playing their hand, though.

So what's the general opinion around here?

 

[eandre]

DD is a "spunky" game compared to a 6 deck shoe. The count and bets move up and down faster. You have to learn not to adjust your bet every hand, else a counter is easy to detect. Casinos protect their pitch games and you will probably not get away with any high stakes play with a spread that is greater than 1-8 regardless how good you think you are, most players work on a smaller spread. I would suggest that you try to play heads up with the dealer to see all the cards or sit in the third seat and sneak a peak at your table mates hands to improve your playing decisions...counting at the end of the round is not optimal. You would be surprised to find out how easy it is to see their cards. At a full table if you are not seeing the cards, how do you make the correct plays?
If the pit looks at you based on your bet spread try telling them that you never played DD and are a shoe player on the east coast...that may sooth their nerves. Tell them that you don't like DD, but continue to play.
Be careful with the rules, there are many 6 deck shoe games that actually offer a lower house advantage then DD. Fewer decks does not always mean better odds.

 

[ccl]

i think he is referring to double deck dealt out of a shoe, the casino i worked at had no pitch games and all double deck was out of a shoe, just so they didnt have to try to teach 75 dealers how to pitch before they could open it up. it dealt all the cards face up like on regular shoe games, but it only used the two decks

 

[EasyRhino]

The shoe-dealt games are generally going to be a little quicker, and simpler to count since you can see all the cards at once.

Pitch is just plain slower, and you see other players' cards irregularly (don't double-count!). For me, the biggest drag of pitch games is at a fullish table when you need to make a snap insurance decision, but you can't see 4 or 6 of the cards on the table. Although keeping your own cards to yourself does help deflect ploppy criticism if you're changing the way you play your 16 v 10 hands.

 

[jack.jackson]

All things being equal vs straight counting, (regardless shoe vs pitch) face-up ,is king especially if you use ace-params.

For single and double deck games, I only use 3 different bets.

1. Min
2. Bump
3.BumpxBump(2H)

# of players have impact

 

[shadroch]

I greatly prefer DD,hopefully DD dealt face up.
I use my starting bet,use a reduced bet if the count tanks,double my bet if count justifys and then let winning hands ride as long as the count justifies.
In effect,I spread 1-8 in one of the sweaties shops around with no hassles.

 

[EasyRhino]

I may not have read your example correctly, but if your original bet is 2, then when you drop it, it would be 1, and if you double it, it would be 4... but that's only a 4x spread.

Would you be willing to double it twice from the starting bet (or three times from min?)?

 

[shadroch]

An example- I start betting $10. If the count tanks after the second round,I bet $5. Assuming I'm still at my initial $10,when the count justifies it,I jump to $20.If I win and the count justifies it,I let it ride and bet the whole $40. If I win that hand and the count justifies a big bet,I usually back down,betting $25.
So a $5-$40 spread,or 1-8.
What helps me ,I think,is that I drop my big bet from $40 to $25,even if the count says bet more.I figure I've got 2.5X my initial bet and the PB ,if he's watching ,is seeing me reduce my bet at a time i should be raising it.

 

[creeping panther]

Essential

that you play DD face down, or face up, with no more than 1 other player, and the BEST is Heads Up! :grin: That other player should be a teammate

You must tactically plan your DD career around the above criterion.

Be a "BJ Warrior".

CP

 

[TENNBEAR]

I play the DD pitch game common in the Miss. casino's that I frequent the most. I have played DD shoe ( face-up ) in Vegas. The one thing I like the most in a pitch game is you don't have other players trying to tell you how to play your hand, because they can not see your cards, unless you want them to.

 

[shadroch]

that you play DD face down, or face up, with no more than 1 other player, and the BEST is Heads Up! :grin: That other player should be a teammate

You must tactically plan your DD career around the above criterion.

Be a "BJ Warrior".

CP

While that may be your opinion,can you base it on any facts? Playing DD faceup solo eliminates one of that games biggest advantages.

 

[creeping panther]

Interesting

While that may be your opinion,can you base it on any facts? Playing DD faceup solo eliminates one of that games biggest advantages.

If you would be so kind I would like your thought in a pm.

I am sure you must understand the reasons behind my statement, if not again pm me if you are so inclined.

CP

 

[creeping panther]

To a point

I play the DD pitch game common in the Miss. casino's that I frequent the most. I have played DD shoe ( face-up ) in Vegas. The one thing I like the most in a pitch game is you don't have other players trying to tell you how to play your hand, because they can not see your cards, unless you want them to.

:

and then when you flip the cards the abuse starts, because now they see your cards!

CP

 

[shadroch]

If you would be so kind I would like your thought in a pm.

I am sure you must understand the reasons behind my statement, if not again pm me if you are so inclined.

CP

Its no secret.
When playing face-up DD,you get many opps to buy players hands-splits and double downs.At low stakes tables,its amazing how few people will split Aces.In a face up game,you can gain several percentage points scavaging hands. Playing face up you can't. Playing one on one,you can't really walk away from negative decks. With a crowd,you can blame someone for messing with The Sacred Flow and justify sitting out a hand or two.

 

[creeping panther]

I see

Its no secret.
When playing face-up DD,you get many opps to buy players hands-splits and double downs.At low stakes tables,its amazing how few people will split Aces.In a face up game,you can gain several percentage points scavaging hands. Playing face up you can't. Playing one on one,you can't really walk away from negative decks. With a crowd,you can blame someone for messing with The Sacred Flow and justify sitting out a hand or two.

and I do thank you for the personal information on your overall method of attacking the casino.

It would be most interesting to see you in action, it must be rather comical at times:laugh: trying to convince players to let you play their hands over and over again:grin:

Best to you.

CP