Dream BJ place!!!

Z

Zeus999

Member
#1
#1
Hi everybody,

I was playing more than 15 years BJ in Europe everywhere and in the year 2006 (after 185 casino-black lists) i started playing Texas Holdem Poker.

So, 2 days ago a friend of my invited me to go in some casino and watch a really dream black jack game:

6 decks, 4 times split Aces, dbl after split on any 2 cards, ENHC,
Penetration 60% (hand schuffle of course), soft 17,
surrender on any 2,3,4 or more cards
(on dealer ace only by 16 with 2 or 3 or more cards..)
when you make double and you dont like the coming card you can... surrender it!!! YES you can surrender your 12 or 15 or whatever.
When you split aces you have again the choice to RESCUE (surrender) it or to ACCEPT it!!!

I was there and couldnt believe my eyes. I saw many many dealers in my life cheating but on this place I am sure everything was normal.

Please can somebody tell me how much could be the hourly win rate of this game if spread is like 1 to 30 (for ex. min bet 10 and max. bet 300)?

Thank you so much in Advance and good luck everybody

Zeus
 
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N

NightStalker

Well-Known Member
#4
#4
advantage on the top

u've edge on the top unless there are(am sure will be) some variations to the game like
1) no 10s are there :p
2) bj pays 1:1
3) dealer 22 pushes
4) tie is a loser
5) blah blah
 
Z

Zeus999

Member
#5
#5
Hi NightStalker,

the second day I was there I was long time waiting to see all the cards, before they start, so everything was correct! All cards are there!

2) BJ pays 150%

3) no pushes

4) no ties loses

5) and no... blah blah

I know its unbelievable but its true, I lost my sleep since then!

thank you
 
FLASH1296

FLASH1296

Well-Known Member
#9
#9
IF the game has no House Advantage [for you,
playing perfect Basic Strategy], you just bet
your personal MAX bet (presuming that you
have a very large bankroll) on every hand.​
 
1

1357111317

Well-Known Member
#10
#10
Zeus999 said:
1357111317?...
what do you mean? to not count? to just play max bets non stop???

thx for reply

Zeus
Click to expand...
You can count, I'm not sure if you'll need it though. Maybe for some indices but i'm guessing that just playing BS youve got a pretty big advantage. And if its 60% pen counting won't help you a ton. EDIT: AFter looking at it again you probably want to count. If you are using a 1-20 spread probably bet 4 or 5 units at a neutral count.

EDIT: Surrendering yoru doubles is huge, reduces variance so much and makes it worth it. Id make sure you know when to surrender them and when not to. I'm sure if you can surrender your doubles you can double more aggresively (IE 10v10, 9 v 2 etc)

EDIT2: Looking at it again im not sure how +EV this game is. Is it H17 or S17? And is it ESvX or full ES or LS?
 
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Z

Zeus999

Member
#11
#11
Hi 1357111317,

thank you so much for your time,

so,
the dealer stands on S17,
there is ENHC, (No Hole Card)
you can surrender any 2 or 3 or 4 or 7 cards, whenever you want.
Just vs dealer Ace you can surrender only when you have exactly 16(with 2 or more cards).

1357111317? there is something more, you can also bet insurance for dealers
7, 8, 9 or Ten like insurance on dealer Ace! It pays 2:1!
I can take my girlfriend with me, she can count the ins-count like chewing gum (all Tens -2, all other cards +1).

Do you think my friend I could make on this game something like 15 to 25 units per hour? And please, how big could be my variance, I mean do i have to sell everything (I have anyway nothing, LOL) to stay alive on downswings?

I am a successfull cash-poker player (I think so) and I feel really nice to stay at home and wait of the fish coming. But this BJ game took really my sleep away, I think it must have a huge advantage!

Thank you really so much for your time (and sorry for my bad english-I am a Greek).

Zeus
 
1

1357111317

Well-Known Member
#12
#12
Insurance is offered basically anywhere in teh world, Its nothign special. As for the surrendering rule, its pretty good. ENHC sucks but the S17 is good. My guess is that you have about a 0.2 or 0.3% advantage off the top which is very good. That means that if you normally had your max bet out at +5 for HiLo you could put your max bet out at about +3.5. You also bet a couple units off the top without losing any EV. Just off the top of my head you could probably make 10 minimum bets/ 100 hands with a 1-20 spread but that is just a guess. Some more experienced people on here would be able to help you more than me.
 
SleightOfHand

SleightOfHand

Well-Known Member
#13
#13
1357111317 said:
Insurance is offered basically anywhere in teh world, Its nothign special. As for the surrendering rule, its pretty good. ENHC sucks but the S17 is good. My guess is that you have about a 0.2 or 0.3% advantage off the top which is very good. That means that if you normally had your max bet out at +5 for HiLo you could put your max bet out at about +3.5. You also bet a couple units off the top without losing any EV. Just off the top of my head you could probably make 10 minimum bets/ 100 hands with a 1-20 spread but that is just a guess. Some more experienced people on here would be able to help you more than me.
Click to expand...
The insurance he mentioned says that you can take insurance on 7-A, which I dont quite understand
 
Z

Zeus999

Member
#14
#14
Hi,

thank you SleightOfHand, thanx 1357111317,

yes I mean I can put insurance on dealers 7, 8, 9, T, J, Q, K or A.
If I play ie. 3 boxes per 100 dollars and I have on them 18, 20 and 19,
dealer shows a 7, if its a good time for insurance (my girlfriend will tell me) I can put 150 dollars totally insurance that the dealers second card will be a Ten!
And if the daeler takes a Ten I will win on the 3 boxes +300 and another +300 from the insurance!!!
I think its a great side bet that makes sweet money especially when you have the count for the insurance.

thanx,

Zeus
 
SleightOfHand

SleightOfHand

Well-Known Member
#15
#15
Zeus999 said:
Hi,

thank you SleightOfHand, thanx 1357111317,

yes I mean I can put insurance on dealers 7, 8, 9, T, J, Q, K or A.
If I play ie. 3 boxes per 100 dollars and I have on them 18, 20 and 19,
dealer shows a 7, if its a good time for insurance (my girlfriend will tell me) I can put 150 dollars totally insurance that the dealers second card will be a Ten!
And if the daeler takes a Ten I will win on the 3 boxes +300 and another +300 from the insurance!!!
I think its a great side bet that makes sweet money especially when you have the count for the insurance.

thanx,

Zeus
Click to expand...
Oh wow thats a great rule. So, for 7,8,9,A, you are betting a X in the hole, but with T-K, an A in the hole?
 
Automatic Monkey

Automatic Monkey

Banned
#16
#16
FLASH1296 said:
IF the game has no House Advantage [for you,
playing perfect Basic Strategy], you just bet
your personal MAX bet (presuming that you
have a very large bankroll) on every hand.​
Click to expand...
I don't agree. Double down rescue and multi-card surrender isn't worth that much with a 52-card deck. If there's a player edge, it isn't huge and it will still go -EV in a negative count.
 
SleightOfHand

SleightOfHand

Well-Known Member
#17
#17
Automatic Monkey said:
I don't agree. Double down rescue and multi-card surrender isn't worth that much with a 52-card deck. If there's a player edge, it isn't huge and it will still go -EV in a negative count.
Click to expand...
Hmm, yea, I overestimated the value of the double down rescue. WoO shows a .1% increase for the rule. However, I would imagine a nice decrease in SD which would be especially helpful for CCs.

The surrender rule, if it is indeed what the OP says it is, is especially nice for CCs
 
R

RJT

Well-Known Member
#20
#20
1357111317 said:
Insurance is offered basically anywhere in teh world, Its nothign special. As for the surrendering rule, its pretty good. ENHC sucks but the S17 is good. My guess is that you have about a 0.2 or 0.3% advantage off the top which is very good. That means that if you normally had your max bet out at +5 for HiLo you could put your max bet out at about +3.5. You also bet a couple units off the top without losing any EV. Just off the top of my head you could probably make 10 minimum bets/ 100 hands with a 1-20 spread but that is just a guess. Some more experienced people on here would be able to help you more than me.
Click to expand...
Actually this is not true - in the UK and i'd make a guess at Europe, but that's all it'd be - you are often only allowed to take insurance against an Ace when you have a Blackjack. Ridiculous rule, but there you go.

RJT.
 
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