Eyes and ears at Trop's 4decker pit

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Ethan

Active Member
#1
#1
Each member here will be the eyes and ears at the pit. Feel free to report in this thread whatever you've seen and heard. Let me start first.

The 4decker pit has brought in big bucks for Trop. A young Latino had bet purples (tablemax) and got wiped out eventually. A young Asian girl had bet blacks and got wiped out. A Black player had bet decks of greens and got wiped out. A grouchy old Asian guy had bet reds and greens and got wiped out. A wonger jumped in with greens and blacks and got beaten every hand except the final round, blessed with 2 hands of blackjacks. At another table, "Pman" wonged in and won 2 hands consecutively and disappeared quickly with some profit. Trop takes in a hell lots more than it gives out. Hmmm.... Perhaps that's why Trop has eased up the heat against APs just a little bit...except when an AP jumped from a hand of $20 to 2 hands of $150 each in greens and won them both. :grin:
 
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rollem411

Well-Known Member
#2
#2
I'm pretty sure they are photographing potential counters...I overheard a conversation between a few of the PBs while playing. Play smart and don't get too comfy.
 
blackjack avenger

blackjack avenger

Well-Known Member
#3
#3
Casinos Make Money By Dealing Cards

The civilian players are still bad. If a casino actually offers good games to attract bad players then they make money!

I imagine these games have more action then their other games? Hmmmmm, it seems maybe they should offer more good games.

If I managed a casino I would offer the best of every type of game and advertise it! I would offer a better product!
 
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21forme

Well-Known Member
#4
#4
These games are not getting more players. I heard one PC tell a regular that these games really haven't caught on because the dealers have to shuffle so frequently.
 
Automatic Monkey

Automatic Monkey

Banned
#5
#5
blackjack avenger said:
The civilian players are still bad. If a casino actually offers good games to attract bad players then they make money!

I imagine these games have more action then their other games? Hmmmmm, it seems maybe they should offer more good games.

If I managed a casino I would offer the best of every type of game and advertise it! I would offer a better product!
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From what I've seen there, the drop and hold are probably indistinguishable from the rest of the blackjack tables.

Besides, I don't know why everyone is getting so excited about these 4D games. Unless the pen is good, it's not much better than Wonging any other table in the city. Show me some RO7 SD and I'll get excited.
 
bj bob

bj bob

Well-Known Member
#6
#6
Automatic Monkey said:
Show me some RO7 SD and I'll get excited.
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My interpretation of the above statement: "Hi Mr. Monkey! My name is Cindy Singledeck and I promise to give you 7 rounds every time right here on the top of this table. Oh! Is that a banana in your pocket or are you just happy to see me?":devil::devil:
 
FLASH1296

FLASH1296

Well-Known Member
#7
#7
Some newbies here really think that this game is a Bonanza. It isn't.

A 4 deck game with 75% pen is INFERIOR to a 6 deck game with 84% pen' or an 8 deck game with 88% pen'
 
Ferretnparrot

Ferretnparrot

Well-Known Member
#9
#9
Yo the 4 deck games are not because of the reduced house edge by 0.04 perecnt or whatever, but mostly because of the easy of play, if your looking for an open 8 deck table and the only ones open are only dealt 3 decks in you gotta wait a loing time beofre the shuffle, with the four deckers if they are only half dealt, you can walk to the nearest slot machine and read the payschedual and by the time your done readin they are shuffling for the next shoe, also as i understand it, hands played at an advantage are more common in 4 deckers than in 8 decker with identical penetration, so a backcounter will play more rather than sit and do nothing which is really reallly boring and i hate whee im doing nothing.

Yeah so about the game though, heat has dropped considerably, i woudl suggest that the tables are popular because while all four of them were full, i spotted two 8 deckers completely empty in the adjacent pit, today. About losing money, actualy i lost a BOATLOAD of money and 40% of it was lost at these tables. In fact iv lost so much money in the last week that i am now out of commission and cant play anymore, as a net, iv won money playing cards, but as my bank account, it has no money because ive spent it all on bills (and strippers) and no i dont regret a thing, the last year fo playing cards eating free meals and strippers was awsome, **** you mainstream society, blackjack is way better.
 
FLASH1296

FLASH1296

Well-Known Member
#10
#10
21forme asked (me) "Have you found any of those other games in AC?"

One deck cut offs in 6 deck games are rare but can be found from time to time, at 8 decks good pen' is also hard to find.

My point is that one needs to keep things in perspective is all.
 
nottooshabby

nottooshabby

Well-Known Member
#11
#11
FLASH1296 said:
Some newbies here really think that this game is a Bonanza. It isn't.

A 4 deck game with 75% pen is INFERIOR to a 6 deck game with 84% pen' or an 8 deck game with 88% pen'
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FLASH,

Are you sure about the 4D/75% vs 6D/84%? I just ran some CV sims comparing the two after you mentioned it.

1. 50 million rounds
2. S17
3. Split up to 4 hands
4. No surrender
5. DAS
6. nRSA
7. $25 unit

I used the Red-7 strategy, and the results showed a SCORE of 45.61 and a win/hr of $82.36 for 4D/75%. For 6D/84% (84% for 6D can be anywhere from 49-51 cards left, so I chose the best pen [49 cards left] that yielded 84%) it revealed a SCORE of 39.63 and a win/hr of $76.85. This was utilizing a play-all approach.

I then adjusted it to Wong-in at a RC=+1. The SCORE for the 4D/75% game was 74.90, whereas for the 6D/84% game it was 69.21.

Because I know many/most folks here are using a balanced count system, I ran the sim again using Hi-Lo with I18. Using a play-all approach, the 4D/75% SCORE was 44.60 with a win/hr of $82.69. The 6D/84% SCORE was 37.33 with a win/hr of $69.97. Wonging-in at a TC=+1, the SCORE was 79.93 and 74.25 for the 4D/75% and 6D/84% games, respectively.

I was quite surprised at the results myself. Could these results be related to the fact that I'm using the free version of CV? (j/k) If anyone has gotten a different sim result comparing these games, please let me know. Thanks!
 
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iCountNTrack

iCountNTrack

Well-Known Member
#12
#12
FLASH1296 said:
Some newbies here really think that this game is a Bonanza. It isn't.

A 4 deck game with 75% pen is INFERIOR to a 6 deck game with 84% pen' or an 8 deck game with 88% pen'
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This is totally erroneous, holding everything else constant a 4D 75% Pen = 6D 85% Pen = 8D 92% Pen. (I actually ran the simulations not just made up some numbers)

85% Pen for 6D that means cutting 46 cards out, 92% Pen for 8D is cutting 33 cards almost 1/2 deck, please tell me where we can find such wonders.
 
nottooshabby

nottooshabby

Well-Known Member
#13
#13
iCountNTrack said:
This is totally erroneous, holding everything else constant a 4D 75% Pen = 6D 85% Pen = 8D 92% Pen. (I actually ran the simulations not just made up some numbers)

85% Pen for 6D that means cutting 46 cards out, 92% Pen for 8D is cutting 33 cards almost 1/2 deck, please tell me where we can find such wonders.
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Thank you iCountNTrack, nice to know that my sim result has some support! :cool:
 
S

shadroch

Well-Known Member
#14
#14
nottooshabby said:
Thank you iCountNTrack, nice to know that my sim result has some support! :cool:
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Ha. If you really knew what you were doing, why aren't you using giant text and multiple color ink like the real experts?
 
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bjcount

Well-Known Member
#15
#15
iCountNTrack said:
This is totally erroneous, holding everything else constant a 4D 75% Pen = 6D 85% Pen = 8D 92% Pen. (I actually ran the simulations not just made up some numbers)

85% Pen for 6D that means cutting 46 cards out, 92% Pen for 8D is cutting 33 cards almost 1/2 deck, please tell me where we can find such wonders.
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FLASH stated 8D@88% & 6D@84% both of which are 49.92 cards (approx 1d). These games are still available with a little scouting. I havent checked the results to comment on the original remark 4d vs...."]

BJC
 
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bjcount

Well-Known Member
#16
#16
The results are in:
comparison 3/4d, 5/6d, & 7/8d
rules
play all, 1-12 bet, s17, das, ls,

FLASH your not going to be happy. Even adjusting the bet spread didn't make the 6 & 8 d out SCORE the 4d.

The sims are in order 4d - 6d - 8d.

BJC

:eek: my picures! :eek:
 

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E

Ethan

Active Member
#17
#17
Freebies

bjcount said:
The results are in:
comparison 3/4d, 5/6d, & 7/8d
rules
play all, 1-12 bet, s17, das, ls,

FLASH your not going to be happy. Even adjusting the bet spread didn't make the 6 & 8 d out SCORE the 4d.

The sims are in order 4d [$37/hr]- 6d [$32/hr] - 8d [$27/hr].

BJC

:eek: my picures! :eek:
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Bjcount, thanks for your freebie. In return for your freebie, here's one from me to you. Be aware of an extreme strong-arm tactic used by Foxwoods. I'll tell you more when I rub elbows with you at the Trop's 4decker pit.
 
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Automatic Monkey

Automatic Monkey

Banned
#18
#18
Ethan said:
Bjcount, thanks for your freebie. In return for your freebie, here's one from me to you. Be aware of an extreme strong-arm tactic used by Foxwoods. I'll tell you more when I rub elbows with you at the Trop's 4decker pit.
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4D with an honest 1D pen is fine. The problem is with 4D the SCORE starts going down rapidly if you are getting anything less than 1 deck pen, which several people have reported. A 2D game with 1 deck pen is unplayable. And adding late surrender to a game is the equivalent of adding an additional half deck pen. If you're backcounting, the numbers are all different and in terms of practicality there's a lot to be said for backcounting an 8D shoe.

What strongarm tactics at Foxwoods? I'm there all the time. I don't know what you have to do to bring heat onto yourself at Foxwoods, but I haven't managed to do it yet.
 
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bjcount

Well-Known Member
#19
#19
Automatic Monkey said:
4D with an honest 1D pen is fine. The problem is with 4D the SCORE starts going down rapidly if you are getting anything less than 1 deck pen, which several people have reported. A 2D game with 1 deck pen is unplayable. And adding late surrender to a game is the equivalent of adding an additional half deck pen. If you're backcounting, the numbers are all different and in terms of practicality there's a lot to be said for backcounting an 8D shoe.

What strongarm tactics at Foxwoods? I'm there all the time. I don't know what you have to do to bring heat onto yourself at Foxwoods, but I haven't managed to do it yet.
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You get no disagreement from me, The proofs in the pics.
top 2.75/4d
btm 2.5/4d

BJC
 

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