First Timer -- Any Advice?

[lorolljoe]

First time posting here....although I have been skulking on this forum for quite a long time. Many thanks to those of you who show up here on a regular basis with information, stories, strategies. My eyes have been opened and I am putting in the work to learn how to count.

Heading to LV soon, and I would apppreciate any advice anyone would care to volunteer about first timers in the casino. "Make sure to do this", "Don't do this", "You might want to try this"...any thoughts are welcome.

BJ is my favorite game. I learned BS quite some time ago, I've got that down cold. I have been playing BS with progression betting for a while, and have gotten slaughtered every time.

Bought KO about 2 months ago and have been learning the "Rookie" system. The kitchen table has been a BJ table for about the last month. Probably running in the range of 200 hands a day. I can count down a deck in single cards in about 45 sec. And in the last week, the "cancelling pairs" on the table are really starting to click in.

I tally the count of the entire table just before the hit cards come out, then count the individual hit cards. Is this the best way to do this?

Also, what is the best way to get out of a highly negative count situation? Just get up and leave?

Thanks in advance for any input. I'm a low roller. I'm not looking to smoke the house, just want to have some fun, not get run over, and maybe make a couple bucks once in a while. PeAcE!

 

[Sonny]

I tally the count of the entire table just before the hit cards come out, then count the individual hit cards. Is this the best way to do this?

Yeah. That’s the easiest and fastest way to get the count for the table. You’ll be able to cancel out the cards most of the time so you can ignore most of the hands you see.

Also, what is the best way to get out of a highly negative count situation? Just get up and leave?

Yup. People come and go all the time. You can always use a bathroom/phone call/hungry excuse if you want, but you can usually just pick up your chips and walk. The dealer might hassle you about coloring up your chips but that’s no big deal.

You’ll probably want to watch a few tables before you sit down. It takes a while to get used to the casino environment and all of the distractions. You might pick up a few pointers by watching some of the other players too. Once you get desensitized to the casino you’ll feel more comfortable sitting down and playing.

-Sonny-

 

[mdlbj]

Pay close attention to the table rules. Ask the dealer if they offer surrender. For obvious reasons you want to play with the most liberal rules available.

As sunny said, you can get up and leave at any time you choose, don't feel bad at all, after all you are there to make money not give it to the casino. Also, you can jump in the shoe any time you would like. Good rule, ( mid shoe entry is allowed ), bad rule ( no mid shoe entry )

Strip casinos see more people than one can imagine. Be a tourist in their eyes and you will not get noticed at all.

 

[TENNBEAR]

When you first arrive stand back and backcount a while, and get accustomed to counting in the casino enviroment. Try to find some tables that are not full, much easier to count when the tables have only two to three other players at the table. Look for slow dealers, and hope she don't go on break as soon as you sit down. This may require you turn-in early so as to be in the casino early in the morning when the casino is not crowded. Do not hurry, wait until the count comes.

 

[SilentBob420BMFJ]

you dont need to get up and leave, just sit there and keep counting, and only play when the count is positive.. also, either call the casinos and get the rules before you go, or bring several basic strategy sheets with you, along with the illustrious 18 (or 13 if your only playing + counts) for several different sets of rules.. one of the things i hate is playing a game that has different rules or a different pay table (video poker) and not having a strategy sheet with you for those set of rules

 

[lorolljoe]

Thanks guys. I appreciate your input. All good. Just a little nervous about sitting down with live ammo and suddenly.....blank. I guess the only way to find out if the homework was right is to do it. Assuming I get the hang of it, I'm not going to draw any heat playing reds spreading 1-5, am I?

 

[Montreal Casino]

Thanks guys. I appreciate your input. All good. Just a little nervous about sitting down with live ammo and suddenly.....blank. I guess the only way to find out if the homework was right is to do it. Assuming I get the hang of it, I'm not going to draw any heat playing reds spreading 1-5, am I?

You will not be drawing any heat playing at that level lol. Don't worry. I do not even draw heat at my local casino spreading 1-8 with greens.

 

[Bashful C. Stupid-Butt]

The best advice I can give is always get up from the table a winner. The next best advice is to take the time to practice what ever counting method you are comfortable with for many hours prior to the trip.

I hate limiting my high bet. Table limit should work best. Limited your max bet will not only limit your loss, but also limit your winning. Being able to go from 5 to Table max is an advantage for the skilled player. I say this without ever getting there myself.

Don;t place tip bets. even when you are winning. Save the tip for when you get up a winner. 15-20% is pretty standard for the pizza guy, and you don;t tip the waitress everytime she refills your coffee cup.

 

[Sonny]

I hate limiting my high bet. Table limit should work best. Limited your max bet will not only limit your loss, but also limit your winning.

But you’re forgetting the most important thing: It also limits the number of times you go broke! For people who don’t want to keep pulling money out of the checking account every time they go to a casino, risk of ruin and proper bet sizing are very important.

Don;t place tip bets. even when you are winning.

Amen brother!

-Sonny-

 

[Kaiser]

You guys don't do that? I kind of thought the dealer liked it when you did. Or do you just mean that you never tip at all?

Then again, I almost never play in casinos that allow it. In Alberta, Canada you aren't allowed.

 

[Bashful C. Stupid-Butt]

I only tip when I win and that's been pretty often. It was usually over $100.00, sometimes $200.00. When I have a few bucks and only play with loose change, I may tip a flat $25.00 before I leave the casino. My recent wins and that was about a year ago after I pawned a gold coin was $275.00, and I don;t remember if I even tipped.

It took me 2-3 hours to get that money too. Nearly every table I watched had negative counts, and I only ended up paying 5 or 6 hands that night on 2-3 tables. It was at the Empress Casino in Joliet, Illinois.

And I agree with the guy who says people are tired of going broke. It's always best to gamble the way you are most comfortable doing so. I may have been more aggressive when I was carefree and younger. I may choose to start the shoe off with a negative count based on the number of decks.

 

[blackwater1776]

Bought KO about 2 months ago and have been learning the "Rookie" system. The kitchen table has been a BJ table for about the last month. Probably running in the range of 200 hands a day. I can count down a deck in single cards in about 45 sec. And in the last week, the "cancelling pairs" on the table are really starting to click in.

Good practice at home...turn your t.v. on up real loud in one room, the radio in the other and maybe run a blender right next the kitchen table. The distractions and noise in a casino are many and a little hard to get used to at first. That being said, nothing beats real game experience in a casino.

Good luck

 

[shadroch]

Counting down a deck in 45 seconds won't get the job done. Keep practicing until you can count two decks perfect in 60 seconds or less.Its not that hard. Ten minutes,three times a day is not that hard to find the time for.

 

[lorolljoe]

Thanks guys. I'm workin' on it.

Man, I am getting confused on something. Need a little help. And before I even ask the question...yes, I have the book and I've read the chapters, but it's not sinking in.

As you play down through the shoe how do I determine the change in the Key Count? I like to start with an IRC of 0. In a six deck game, that means my KC is 16....I get that. But as I play down through the shoe the total count will wind up at 24. I could be upping my bets into a negative situation. What's the deal?

 

[Jeff25]

One more thing... Dont expect to make money easily. Dont be surprised if you are down money or just above break-even after 100's of hours of play. This game is a f'in grind!

 

[BJLover]

Another question om KO rookie

Thanks guys. I'm workin' on it.

Man, I am getting confused on something. Need a little help. And before I even ask the question...yes, I have the book and I've read the chapters, but it's not sinking in.

As you play down through the shoe how do I determine the change in the Key Count? I like to start with an IRC of 0. In a six deck game, that means my KC is 16....I get that. But as I play down through the shoe the total count will wind up at 24. I could be upping my bets into a negative situation. What's the deal?

Hi folks,(I.R.C=0)
I Am learning the KO Rookie count aswell, I too am a bit confused with this concept of betting at the key count (+16) and having my big bets out even when i know the count must still go up,(should reach +24 (the pivot point) at the end of 6 decks), meaning more small cards Must come out. I realise this has something to do with it being an unbalanced count and that at the key count my advantage will be approx 2.2% - B/S advantage(-0.5%) so i totally understand why i must get the money out there, i just always thought that you can only make money when the count is dropping. Can somebody please explain this, has been nagging me for a few days now.

I also have another question reguarding the KO Rookie expection,
Using the KO Rookie count gives you an advantage of 0.54%(1-10 bet spread, 6 deck game), if the house advantage at my casino is -0.5%, is my advantage only 0.04%??
I can easily get away with a 1-15 bet spread at my local casino, can anyone workout the expection of that kind of bet spread for KO Rookie for a 6 deck game??

Any help would be great.

 

[ChefJJ]

I too am a bit confused with this concept of betting at the key count (+16) and having my big bets out even when i know the count must still go up,(should reach +24 (the pivot point) at the end of 6 decks), meaning more small cards Must come out.

The big issue with an unbalanced count is pretty much just that. The key count is pretty much when you first see a marked advantage according to the KO theory, but remember that that advantage is less when you are deeper into the shoe (and more if it comes early). In my opinion though, you just have to trust the system you are using and stick to the plan...unless you use some detailed math to adjust the key count as the shoe gets played out (of course, that defeats the purpose of the unbalanced count in my eyes).

As far as having a "big bet" out at the KC, I would suggest learning the preferred KO method...it uses a step betting system with the count, and you won't have a big bet out there at the KC--just a more graduated bet.

Oh yeah, and because the casino cuts off about 1.5 decks in a 6 deck shoe, there is no guarantee that anything "must come out".

good luck

 

[lorolljoe]

That's what I've been doing, Chef JJ. Been ramping my bets as the count becomes more and more positive, and pegging up the KC a couple points as I get deeper into the shoe. Seems to be working OK. Just trying to keep it as simple as possible until I understand how this is going to play out on the floor.

On a side note, I mentioned in my first post that in the past I've played BS with a progression scheme I concocted. If you want an eye-opener, try a couple shoes of progession betting while counting. Wow! Doesn't take too long to figure out how you can get run over. All it takes is one shoe where the count hangs around that IRC number for a while, and bam...you're smoked.

I appreciate you chiming in.....PeAcE!

 

[ChefJJ]

That's what I've been doing, Chef JJ. Been ramping my bets as the count becomes more and more positive, and pegging up the KC a couple points as I get deeper into the shoe. Seems to be working OK. Just trying to keep it as simple as possible until I understand how this is going to play out on the floor.

On a side note, I mentioned in my first post that in the past I've played BS with a progression scheme I concocted. If you want an eye-opener, try a couple shoes of progession betting while counting. Wow! Doesn't take too long to figure out how you can get run over. All it takes is one shoe where the count hangs around that IRC number for a while, and bam...you're smoked.

I appreciate you chiming in.....PeAcE!

Good luck to ya! If there is one thing to remember in all this...assume nothing! Stick to the plan, but always keep in the back of your mind that everything is based on slim margins of probability, and they can dissapoint at times and make you money at others. :joker:

 

[Canceler]

i just always thought that you can only make money when the count is dropping.

Try thinking of it this way: The count is likely to drop while you are making money. See the difference?