First Trip - Any Tips?

#1
Hey folks, first time poster here. I've developed an interest in counting and have prepared just about as extensively as I can before taking an initial trip to get a feel for the game and whether it's something I want to invest more time (and money) in.

I learned a level-two count with all positive indices and am planning to wong in and out to keep my betting spread low. I've used software to practice 6 and 8-deck games and have gotten my error rate low enough for a first go at live play. (My significant other helps me practice with real cards but isn't fast enough yet for it to be a challenge.) I've sized my bankroll and bet ramp using basic standards, and even developed basic programs for running ten-million-hand sims with different rules and counting strategies, and another for calculating risk of ruin under different conditions. (Previous hobbies/skills include Java programming and statistical analysis, and my primary job for two years involved infiltrating a hospitality company as an employee using a cover identity... counting might just be a good fit, am I right?)

So, with that and some year-old Trackjack data I'll be heading to the only gambling mecca in New England soon.

Any tips for a potential advantage player? I suppose nobody would be willing to suggest a few good initial spots in a PM to a newbie? I somehow doubt much of this Trackjack data still applies.

I'm mostly curious about how heat works in the city that can't bar counters. I've read they prefer lowering penetration to 50% or less when they identify one. What do they do when you come back - lower penetration at every table you play? Force you to flat bet and prevent you from entering mid-game? Or do the games just all have worthless rules these days?

Anyways, thanks in advance for any tips! Here's to exploiting lucrative loopholes in a failing economic system!
 

Meistro

Well-Known Member
#2
Take a deck with you and count through it a few times in your car in the casino parking lot. Practice counting as your significant other deals to you while talking to someone on your phone. Don`t forget to scout - you are after one thing and one thing alone, Pene. Your best bet is probably the Borgota, but I have never gambled in America, so wtf do I know :laugh: Also the best times to hit a casino are week day mornings, the worst generally weekend evenings.
 

fubster

Well-Known Member
#3
(Previous hobbies/skills include Java programming and statistical analysis, and my primary job for two years involved infiltrating a hospitality company as an employee using a cover identity... counting might just be a good fit, am I right?)
highly interested in this, since i've done things a bit like that recreationally before...

anyway, in terms of advice... have fun! don't sweat it too much. if you're having fun, i feel (possibly incorrectly, please let me know if/how i'm wrong) that you won't catch too much heat.
 

Sucker

Well-Known Member
#4
There are TWO major casinos in New England; Foxwoods and Mohegan Sun, both in Connecticut. Both of them can and WILL bar counters in a heartbeat.

As for Atlantic City - the city that can't bar counters; if they think you're a threat to them they may employ all of the countermeasures you've mentioned and then some. If the table is NOT a no-mid shoe entry they can't prevent you from entering the game, but they CAN limit your maximum bet,sometimes to as low as $25 a hand. Or they may instruct the dealer to shuffle up every time you come to the table. If they think that you're a BIG threat they'll send a flyer around to every casino in town.
 

rukus

Well-Known Member
#5
anteros said:
Hey folks, first time poster here. I've developed an interest in counting and have prepared just about as extensively as I can before taking an initial trip to get a feel for the game and whether it's something I want to invest more time (and money) in.

I learned a level-two count with all positive indices and am planning to wong in and out to keep my betting spread low. I've used software to practice 6 and 8-deck games and have gotten my error rate low enough for a first go at live play. (My significant other helps me practice with real cards but isn't fast enough yet for it to be a challenge.) I've sized my bankroll and bet ramp using basic standards, and even developed basic programs for running ten-million-hand sims with different rules and counting strategies, and another for calculating risk of ruin under different conditions. (Previous hobbies/skills include Java programming and statistical analysis, and my primary job for two years involved infiltrating a hospitality company as an employee using a cover identity... counting might just be a good fit, am I right?)

So, with that and some year-old Trackjack data I'll be heading to the only gambling mecca in New England soon.

Any tips for a potential advantage player? I suppose nobody would be willing to suggest a few good initial spots in a PM to a newbie? I somehow doubt much of this Trackjack data still applies.

I'm mostly curious about how heat works in the city that can't bar counters. I've read they prefer lowering penetration to 50% or less when they identify one. What do they do when you come back - lower penetration at every table you play? Force you to flat bet and prevent you from entering mid-game? Or do the games just all have worthless rules these days?

Anyways, thanks in advance for any tips! Here's to exploiting lucrative loopholes in a failing economic system!
first tip was already taken - scout the tables/dealers to find those who deal deeply.

second tip - sit and flat bet for a while (20min?) until you feel comfortable playing in a casino environment.

third tip - find a table with LOW minimums until you are comfortable spreading. nothing like feeling your heart pop out of your chest the first time you push a bet out thats 10x your normal bet size and you think, "wow, am i seriously putting down $100 (or $150 or $200, etc) on one stinking hand of blackjack!?"/

fourth tip - avoid crowded tables, though this will almost be in 100% contradiction to tip number 3 in the north east.

fifth tip - enjoy yourself! its your first time, so go easy and have a blast. in the end, if you dont enjoy playing the game, you wont make it to that fabled long run.
 

SleightOfHand

Well-Known Member
#6
Sucker said:
There are TWO major casinos in New England; Foxwoods and Mohegan Sun, both in Connecticut. Both of them can and WILL bar counters in a heartbeat.

As for Atlantic City - the city that can't bar counters; if they think you're a threat to them they may employ all of the countermeasures you've mentioned and then some. If the table is NOT a no-mid shoe entry they can't prevent you from entering the game, but they CAN limit your maximum bet,sometimes to as low as $25 a hand. Or they may instruct the dealer to shuffle up every time you come to the table. If they think that you're a BIG threat they'll send a flyer around to every casino in town.
if you are playing 10 min, unless your spread is absoltely monstrous or you are conpletely obvious, you will get absolutely no heat at FW. I play there once a month or so spreading 1x10-2x200 with wonging

tips: remember session wins/losses are not indicative of counting competence. If you are confident that your counting is correct, don't get worked up if you are losing during high counts. It happens. Play low stakes till you are comfortable with the environment and your abilities within the casino (you may be good at home but not at the casino).
 
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assume_R

Well-Known Member
#7
SleightOfHand said:
remember session wins/losses are not indicative of counting competence. If you are confident that your counting is correct, don't get worked up if you are losing during high counts. It happens.
This is very good advice thank you for posting that.
 

blackjack avenger

Well-Known Member
#8
A Hint of Moderation

Since you plan to play few or no negative hands perhaps be a little conservative with your bets. Don't change the spread but bet a little less.

:joker::whip:

The variance alone probably knocks out players before they even go broke.
 

FLASH1296

Well-Known Member
#9
I take exception with Sucker’s statement:

“ ... limit your maximum bet,sometimes to as low as $25 a hand.“

I have been “bet-restricted” at more than one A.C. Casino.

It has always been $5 to $50, irrespective of those posted limits.

I have never seen or heard of a $25 minimum.

The N.J.C.C.C. Demands that they give all patrons a 10-1 spread, ergo, $5 to $50.
 

kewljason

Well-Known Member
#10
FLASH1296 said:
I take exception with Sucker’s statement:

“ ... limit your maximum bet,sometimes to as low as $25 a hand.“

I have been “bet-restricted” at more than one A.C. Casino.

It has always been $5 to $50, irrespective of those posted limits.

I have never seen or heard of a $25 minimum.

The N.J.C.C.C. Demands that they give all patrons a 10-1 spread, ergo, $5 to $50.
My limited experience concurs with Flash's statement. I was bet restricted once $5-$50 on a $25 min table. I also saw one other patron bet restricted in the same manner at a different casino. Ironically, I played several shoes with this player and didn't perceive him to be raising his bets with the count. If I had, I would have left rather that raise bets in tandem with him. :rolleyes: I think what he was actually doing was some kind of progressive wagering where he raised his bets as the shoe went deeper regardless of count. Shows how idiotic they can be. :laugh:
 

21forme

Well-Known Member
#11
Same here. The one time I was bet restricted (Harrahs Marina) it was a $50 table and a personal sign of 5-50 for me was put on the table.
 

Sucker

Well-Known Member
#12
FLASH1296 said:
The N.J.C.C.C. Demands that they give all patrons a 10-1 spread, ergo, $5 to $50.
I did not know about this gaming regulation. We were FLAT BETTING a quarter table at the Borgata and the shift manager came up and told us that we were restricted to betting ONE unit only. When we asked him to clarify what he meant, he said "Twenty five dollars; no more, no less". Evidently; he either didn't know the law, or he knowingly BROKE the law. Either way, we just left. We didn't want to give them the opportunity to figure out what we were REALLY up to.:eyepatch:
 

FLASH1296

Well-Known Member
#14
In the final analysis, it is probably true that it is pointless to make a scene — HOWEVER, if you just walk over too the NJCC booth and report them, the Borgata would have been HEAVILY fined.

Before I first turned Pro, long ago, a floor person, had a dealer deal me UNWASHED new cards. He later admitted his actions with a smirk as he rounded on his heels. It wasn’t until the next day that I reported this to the NJCCC agent on duty; who informed me that since I could not identify the precise time and table of the offense, (having waited far too long), they would escape the $10,000 (per occurrence) fine.

That was at Trump Plaza.
 

fubster

Well-Known Member
#15
FLASH1296 said:
In the final analysis, it is probably true that it is pointless to make a scene — HOWEVER, if you just walk over too the NJCC booth and report them, the Borgata would have been HEAVILY fined.

Before I first turned Pro, long ago, a floor person, had a dealer deal me UNWASHED new cards. He later admitted his actions with a smirk as he rounded on his heels. It wasn’t until the next day that I reported this to the NJCCC agent on duty; who informed me that since I could not identify the precise time and table of the offense, (having waited far too long), they would escape the $10,000 (per occurrence) fine.

That was at Trump Plaza.
why would unwashed cards make a difference?
 

FLASH1296

Well-Known Member
#16
A non-random method of mixing up the cards is outright cheating.
Unwashed cards undergoing a normal shuffle wind up inn a peculiar order that provides lots of stiff hands, ergo the serious fine for this infraction.

Have you ever noticed just what order brand new cards, fresh from the box, are in ?


I suspect not.
 

fubster

Well-Known Member
#17
FLASH1296 said:
A non-random method of mixing up the cards is outright cheating.
Unwashed cards undergoing a normal shuffle wind up inn a peculiar order that provides lots of stiff hands, ergo the serious fine for this infraction.

Have you ever noticed just what order brand new cards, fresh from the box, are in ?


I suspect not.
i know what order they're in, i just didn't realize the implications. that's why i asked...
 
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