Going Pro with 100k

KewlJ

Well-Known Member
#1
I feel I must comment on this thread running on 'another' forum as I have a very different opinion than most respondents.

First, there are two parts to the OP (or his friend) situation, which are really VERY different topics that are being lumped together. The person mentioned is 80k in debt and if he decided to pursue blackjack play with his 100k, he would be letting that debt go into default. I really don't want to get too into this situation, other than to say there are times when defaulting on debt makes sense. Likely this debt is school loans and credit card debt, sometimes medical bills (likely not this case). I mean debt is your word, your promise to pay back, but sometimes it can get out of control. People make mistakes. This is far different than a situation previously described where a member of this community talked about getting markers from a casino and not paying them back and eventually reaching a settlement for pennies on the dollar. This person talked about this as an advantage play. This is far different than making a mistake and ending up with debt that can take a lifetime to get out from under, while the predators are charging you 18-25%.

So separating out that part of the discussion, which many don't seem to be able to do, How many of us would have loved to have had 100k or even 50k bankroll when we started. :p There are so many of us that have similar histories of starting with a shoe-string bankroll, and spent years building to even be able to play mid-level stakes. OMG, what I wouldn't have given to have avoided my first 3 years of red chip play, making 10k a year and surviving on mac & cheese and peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. :cool:

And the OP (or his friend) is described as mid 20's, I believe no family, dependents. What better time is there to chase a dream like this? I always say there are 2 ideal times in ones life. Early before you start a family and have significant obligations, and upon retirement. So I have no problem with a 20-something year old who unlike most of us staring out, would be decently bankrolled, attempting this endeavor.

Personally I would think the moving all around the country living in hotel rooms, would get tired pretty quickly, but there are those that think that part of the thrill. I took a different approach and moved to a place where I could minimize (not eliminate, but minimize) travel, while still playing professionally.

But all in all, for the OP or his friend, I think this an excellent time in his life to pursue this. And I make no assumptions, as others do, as to his skill level and skill and knowledge preparedness based on that unrelated separate issue mentioned. I have no idea why some are conflating the two issue and assuming that guarantees lack of success. The two are unrelated.
 

Playallin

Well-Known Member
#2
So you are saying default on his debt rather than live up to his responsibilities chasing a pipe dream? He has the resources to do both. If you read the OP saying he has a job that makes six figures. A small $80 grand should be easy to pay off in 2 years or less. Better to think long term than short term. Maybe if one of the socialists get elected the can help him out by forgiving his student loan if he has one. As for CC debt man up bitch you made it.
 
#3
When I finished college, I worked my ass off for about 8 years making a monthly student loan payment until it was paid off.
I was never stupid enough to buy something I couldn't afford using a credit card.
I really don't understand where this country is moving.
 

KewlJ

Well-Known Member
#4
Playallin said:
So you are saying default on his debt rather than live up to his responsibilities chasing a pipe dream? He has the resources to do both. If you read the OP saying he has a job that makes six figures. A small $80 grand should be easy to pay off in 2 years or less. Better to think long term than short term. Maybe if one of the socialists get elected the can help him out by forgiving his student loan if he has one. As for CC debt man up bitch you made it.
I didn't say that at all. You read what you wanted to read. What I said was that sometimes it can make sense depending on the circumstances, which I don't know all the facts and neither do you. I wouldn't attempt to advise in such a matter, nor will I judge. Not my thing or purpose on this forum.
 

Raven

Well-Known Member
#6
Midwest Player said:
PS. You also have a moral obligation to pay off your debts. Stealing is against the 7th commandant.
I'm glad morals are subjective. I couldn't imagine life without porn.
 

Raven

Well-Known Member
#7
Midwest Player said:
Also if you are ever in the situation of getting an income tax refund say goodbye to that. Any refund will go towards your student loan..
Better to incorporate and not pay the taxes to begin with. Which isn't a problem because taxation isn't theft, making it voluntary. That being said, let's remember who works for who here.
 

Raven

Well-Known Member
#8
Midwest Player said:
If the loan is a student loan in most cases you can't wipe it out in bankruptcy.
Not sure why that is because the gov guarantess it (which is why the costs are through the roof), using your money. So it's a lot like paying taxes is really no different than just throwing the money in a campfire.
 

Raven

Well-Known Member
#9
Counting_Is_Fun said:
I was never stupid enough to buy something I couldn't afford using a credit card.

Counting_Is_Fun said:
When I finished college, I worked my ass off for about 8 years making a monthly student loan payment until it was paid off.
Amazing logic. :oops:
 

Playallin

Well-Known Member
#10
KewlJ said:
I didn't say that at all. You read what you wanted to read. What I said was that sometimes it can make sense depending on the circumstances, which I don't know all the facts and neither do you. I wouldn't attempt to advise in such a matter, nor will I judge. Not my thing or purpose on this forum.
You made the case. You read the case. We know he has the means to repay. Six-figure job plus $80.000 cash. This kind of thinking is what is wrong with our country today. I call it ASS CLOWN THINKING.
 

Hell'nBack

Well-Known Member
#11
Midwest Player said:
If the loan is a student loan in most cases you can't wipe it out in bankruptcy. Also if you are ever in the situation of getting an income tax refund say goodbye to that. Any refund will go towards your student loan.
https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/student-loan-debt-bankruptcy.html

PS. You also have a moral obligation to pay off your debts. Stealing is against the 7th commandant.
You are a bonifide idiot and a pathetic loser.
 

KimLee

Well-Known Member
#14
Playallin said:
OP saying he has a job that makes six figures.
Hi KewlJ! There is little point in playing to make less than your day job. DD' kept his job, saved up a session bankroll, and lost it every month. This continued for 5-10 months until he had a monster session and never lost it back. He played part-time until he had adequate bankroll, and then quit his job to play full-time.
 

DSchles

Well-Known Member
#15
KimLee said:
Hi KewlJ! There is little point in playing to make less than your day job. DD' kept his job, saved up a session bankroll, and lost it every month. This continued for 5-10 months until he had a monster session and never lost it back. He played part-time until he had adequate bankroll, and then quit his job to play full-time.
Holy cow! Where the hell have you been for 100 years?!

Nice to see you here.

Don
 

KewlJ

Well-Known Member
#16
KimLee said:
Hi KewlJ! There is little point in playing to make less than your day job. DD' kept his job, saved up a session bankroll, and lost it every month. This continued for 5-10 months until he had a monster session and never lost it back. He played part-time until he had adequate bankroll, and then quit his job to play full-time.
Howdy KimLee. Hope you are well.

DD was a bit before my time, although I have gone back and read everything I could about his journey. It sounds like his saving for a session bankroll each month until he finally hit some strong positive variance and then was off and running, is sort of a variation of the "Hail Mary bankroll".

As for this current situation discussed at Norm's Forum, none of us really know what the guy's situation really is. The post starting that thread wasn't even first hand. It sounded to me like he was very unhappy with his 100k a year job and wanted to "take his shot" at playing blackjack professionally. Kind of a wanted a change type thing. If that is the case, he may well be willing to make less playing blackjack than at the job he doesn't like. How much less? Who knows? Like I said, the whole post was second hand.

I only brought that discussion here because I wanted to make 2 points. One, that there were 2 very different topics being discussed that weren't necessarily related, nor could anyone draw any conclusions that he was doomed to fail because of the second unrelated topic....his debt. And the second thing, I wanted to point out that being in his mid 20's, without family and all those kind of obligations is a pretty good time to go chasing one's dream.

I am not advising or encouraging anything, as I am often accused of doing. Just opining a couple things that I didn't see mentioned in the thread at Norm's forum.
 
#17
KewlJ said:
It sounds like his saving for a session bankroll each month until he finally hit some strong positive variance and then was off and running, is sort of a variation of the "Hail Mary bankroll".
Not a hail Mary...
... Rather, A variation of "virtual BR", as he was committed to replenishing every single month.
 

KewlJ

Well-Known Member
#18
xengrifter said:
Not a hail Mary...
... Rather, A variation of "virtual BR", as he was committed to replenishing every single month.
Yeah, ok. I'll give you, the concept is closer to a re-plenshible bankroll or "virtual BR" as you are calling it. But this concept is very much related to the Hail Mary Bankroll. In the short run the player is playing at a high RoR…..very high for the funds he actually has available and looking for that good positive variance run, that will have him "off and running".
 

Raven

Well-Known Member
#19
KewlJ said:
Yeah, ok. I'll give you, the concept is closer to a re-plenshible bankroll or "virtual BR" as you are calling it. But this concept is very much related to the Hail Mary Bankroll. In the short run the player is playing at a high RoR…..very high for the funds he actually has available and looking for that good positive variance run, that will have him "off and running".
Wouldn't that be time dependent? The ROR would rise as the playing time moved past a certain number of hours. At least that's how I've always figured it when deciding how much to bring for any given session.
 
#20
The key to the virtual / replenishable BR is that the monthly contribution must continue even well-after the inevitable positive upswing approaches a reasonable actual BR...
... Failure otherwise will undermine the conceptual integrity and render it a hail Mary.
 
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