H17 games
- Thread starter assume_R
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Describing a single event from the various options doesn't make the option any better. More often that not, the H17 rule will hurt you.
I agree that just because a game is H17, does not mean that the game is not favorable. I on occasion play H17 games (usually due to the reason you described: availability of other games). In high counts, the H17 rule does not make a huge difference, but it DOES make a difference and cannot be discounted. The low frequency of the event is not an argument for H17. 6 card charlie's are also low frequency, yet it is a good rule for the player that is taken into consideration when choosing games.
I agree that just because a game is H17, does not mean that the game is not favorable. I on occasion play H17 games (usually due to the reason you described: availability of other games). In high counts, the H17 rule does not make a huge difference, but it DOES make a difference and cannot be discounted. The low frequency of the event is not an argument for H17. 6 card charlie's are also low frequency, yet it is a good rule for the player that is taken into consideration when choosing games.
21gunsalute said:
Okay let's put the shoe on the other foot. If you're playing H17 and want to switch to S17 how much advantage do you gain?
House advantage for H17: 0.66 %
House advantage for S17: 0.44 %
An increase of .22%
.22%/.66%=.33% or 1/3
Any questions?
House advantage for H17: 0.66 %
House advantage for S17: 0.44 %
An increase of .22%
.22%/.66%=.33% or 1/3
Any questions?
Now you're talk'in. (See my edited post.) We are saying the same thing!
To put it in perspective, look at the Basic Strategy charts for H17 and S17. They're different enough to make a difference in BS, right? That said, don't be afraid of H17, you'll find very few pitch games that don't have it, but have a healthy respect for the difference it makes.
I must say though, it's probably the most satisfying feeling in BJ. Huge count, huge bet, you split 10's or double something and end up stiffed. Dealer shows a soft 17, then hits it with a 9, then adios, sucker. :grin:
I must say though, it's probably the most satisfying feeling in BJ. Huge count, huge bet, you split 10's or double something and end up stiffed. Dealer shows a soft 17, then hits it with a 9, then adios, sucker. :grin:
That's what I was thinking too. Also that at a high count, there won't be as many small cards for the dealer to improve her hand with and more 10's to just convert her into a hard 17.
So I ran a couple of 6 deck sims using modified decks to load the full shoe at a count of +4 TC. Sim #1 was S17 and sim #2 was H17. Both sims flat bet and played proper basic strategy for a +4 TC. To my surprise and disappointment, there was still a +0.18% difference between the two.
So I ran a couple of 6 deck sims using modified decks to load the full shoe at a count of +4 TC. Sim #1 was S17 and sim #2 was H17. Both sims flat bet and played proper basic strategy for a +4 TC. To my surprise and disappointment, there was still a +0.18% difference between the two.
I believe he included the player playing the proper strategy for a +4 TC (Counter's Basic Strategy). There will be additional changes as the TC gets higher, but it should be negligible.
Although Renzey did not specify the deck composition or count system of the loaded deck, I would think one of the possible reasons for the still noticable difference in advantage is in the increase in aces. More aces means more soft hands since even at high counts, the number of small cards outweigh the number of large cards (+3 HiLo has only ~1/3 tens distributed in the deck).
Although Renzey did not specify the deck composition or count system of the loaded deck, I would think one of the possible reasons for the still noticable difference in advantage is in the increase in aces. More aces means more soft hands since even at high counts, the number of small cards outweigh the number of large cards (+3 HiLo has only ~1/3 tens distributed in the deck).