How do you handle BR and expenses.

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shadroch

Well-Known Member
#1
#1
If in the course of a four day gaming trip you have $400 in expenses, does it come out of your BR or do you handle expenses seperate?
For three years now, I have kept trip expenses and BR completely seperate from each other. In doing so, I've now grown my BR to the low five figures.
For this time, my number one concern was BR protection and I did all that I could to avoid huge swings in variance, in order to build up to five figures.
Should I merge the two -expenses and BR or continue to segregate them.
How do you handle expenses?
 
ekimlacks

ekimlacks

Active Member
#2
#2
I would obviously keep them separate, so you can track your play (assuming you log your wins and losses). However, I would keep them in the same excel spreadsheet, so you can notice if your game is still profitable (most likely is).

Your expenses should be included in your overall profit numbers, but they should not be incorporated into your bankroll. Bankroll is for playing. Other income should be used for expenses, but like I said subtract it in the end as if it were coming from your BR.
 
P

paddywhack

Well-Known Member
#3
#3
I have yet to use any of my BJ winnings for anything other than bankroll growth, so far a good decision. Maybe eventually, when the roll becomes very fat. :grin:

I figure my playing trips as vacations so I spend my day-job money for that. Just so happens to be a working vacation, most of the time.
 
N

NightStalker

Well-Known Member
#4
#4
depends

shadroch said:
If in the course of a four day gaming trip you have $400 in expenses, does it come out of your BR or do you handle expenses seperate?
For three years now, I have kept trip expenses and BR completely seperate from each other. In doing so, I've now grown my BR to the low five figures.
For this time, my number one concern was BR protection and I did all that I could to avoid huge swings in variance, in order to build up to five figures.
Should I merge the two -expenses and BR or continue to segregate them.
How do you handle expenses?
Click to expand...
All trip expenses comes out of BR: Even if it is 50%gamble, and 50% pleasure trip vacation.. Usually my trip expenses~10% Ev of trip..

BR protection: Security camera, motion sensor, safe boxes - with email, text and call support are cheaply available in market. While on trip: hotel safe boxes and self-awareness.. Careless APs have lost BR in restroom, car, restaurant or casino-woman.

If I were you, I'll not merge considering your BR is low 5-figures where trip cost is more than EV. And you travel primary for fun with the hope of making some money. While APs travel to make money with the hope of catching some fun on the way :)
 
Coyote

Coyote

Well-Known Member
#5
#5
paddywhack said:
I have yet to use any of my BJ winnings for anything other than bankroll growth, so far a good decision. Maybe eventually, when the roll becomes very fat. :grin:

I figure my playing trips as vacations so I spend my day-job money for that. Just so happens to be a working vacation, most of the time.
Click to expand...
Great strategy! That's the road I'm taking! :cool:
 
M

MangoJ

Well-Known Member
#7
#7
shadroch said:
If in the course of a four day gaming trip you have $400 in expenses, does it come out of your BR or do you handle expenses seperate?
For three years now, I have kept trip expenses and BR completely seperate from each other.
Click to expand...
Obviously trip expenses must come from bankroll.
This is of course exaggerated, but you get the idea.
Expenses are $400 each trip. Game EV is $200 in total for a trip.
After 100 trips, are you up $20K or down $20K ?

Economically you are down $20K, but if you keep bankroll separate from trip expenses, your book tells you you are up $20K!

Hence, pay your expenses from your bankroll. You can note them individually (I would do), but in total they come from your bankroll.
 
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matt21

Well-Known Member
#8
#8
i think it depends on whether you are treating it as a business or not. if your primary objective for playing is to make money, then you should incorporate the expenses into your BR figures, since the true profit is the casino winnings LESS the money you need to spent to get the winnings in the first place.

If it is more of a hobby/side-income to you, and you are trying to track your profitability of your playing, then exclude the expenses. But be aware that, if you did take the expenses into account, your hobby may actually be an overall cost to you (just like any hobby) and that it is not may not actually supplement your main income at all.
 
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paddywhack

Well-Known Member
#9
#9
matt21 said:
i think it depends on whether you are treating it as a business or not. if your primary objective for playing is to make money, then you should incorporate the expenses into your BR figures, since the true profit is the casino winnings LESS the money you need to spent to get the winnings in the first place.

If it is more of a hobby/side-income to you, and you are trying to track your profitability of your playing, then exclude the expenses. But be aware that, if you did take the expenses into account, your hobby may actually be an overall cost to you (just like any hobby) and that it is not may not actually supplement your main income at all.
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Well said, but in my case, I'm too cheap to take an expensive trip somewhere just to play a game with a low ev. If I'm traveling a long distance the game better be WORTH it and the cost better be less than 20% ev.

Hell, with the price of gas, even driving 3-5 hours to play takes consideration of the cost/time involved versus the ev.
 
aslan

aslan

Well-Known Member
#10
#10
I have always kept my bankroll separate. That was a function more of being married than anything else. For a while I would share my wins with my wife, and also use my bankroll to buy things we needed or to defray my everyday expenses (not just trip-related). However, when my Wife indicated that she was concerned that I might use our general funds for "gambling," I decided to keep my bankroll separate, use it for nothing but gambling, and make it non-sharable.:devil: Since then it has been growing by leaps and bounds. :grin:
 
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matt21

Well-Known Member
#11
#11
paddywhack said:
Well said, but in my case, I'm too cheap to take an expensive trip somewhere just to play a game with a low ev. If I'm traveling a long distance the game better be WORTH it and the cost better be less than 20% ev.
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I am the same paddywhack! Any costs should only be a fraction of the potential EV that the AP opportunity potentially represents. So clearly I am playing it from a pure business perspective, unless there is something else to be gained such as strengthening a relationship with another AP or something like that.
 
blackjack avenger

blackjack avenger

Well-Known Member
#12
#12
Separate Yet Together?

Probably best to keep track of both expenses and ev separately and then compare them to see if your ev is overcoming expenses. Expenses can have a dramatic effect on ror in a combined bank.
 
kewljason

kewljason

Well-Known Member
#13
#13
It is hard for me to relate to these comments about keeping expense money separate from bankroll, as almost from day 1 of my blackjack career, I only had 1 source of income. You could separate it and call it expense money but it came from the same place. Travel expenses along with living expenses had to be kept to a bare minimum. I my case, early on this meant using those buses for transportation that paid back a bonus upon arriving that was at least equal to the cost of a ticket. If you were thrifty, you could find one where you actually made a couple dollars profit, but that would mean sharing a ride with the homeless population.

My earliest over night stays in Atlantic City consisted of catching a four hour nap in one of the bus waiting areas, usually Bally's or the sands. The Sands bus area resembled a homeless shelter more than a bus waiting area. Bally's was a little nicer, spread out a bit more, but they were also more vigilant and checked bus tickets every hour or so.

Today I still keep expenses low. I sacrifice not playing the best games all around the country like many do, but I save both time and money by living close to the games that I do play. My monthly travel expenses now consist of 20-25, $1 monorail tickets, and a tank of gas to hit the outlying locals casinos.
 
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paddywhack

Well-Known Member
#14
#14
kewljason said:
It is hard for me to relate to these comments about keeping expense money separate from bankroll, as almost from day 1 of my blackjack career, I only had 1 source of income. Today I still keep expenses low. I sacrifice not playing the best games all around the country like many do, but I save both time and money by living close to the games that I do play. My monthly travel expenses now consist of 20-25, $1 monorail tickets, and a tank of gas to hit the outlying locals casinos.
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I'm sure all the "AP is my only income" people feel as you do.

I think the vast majority here fall into the other category.

I can certainly understand your frugality. I, too, operate the same way with most of my daily expenses. Very weird putting a grand or more out on a blackjack hand when you don't want to spend $15 to eat out :laugh:

Kudos on your success.
 
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