If and when I ever get caught, I figure I'll just play dumb. "Counting, what's that? Oh yeah! I know what you mean. Do I look like Albert Einstein or something?" Do you ever let on that the house has correctly identified you? Or do you let them languish in the thought that just maybe they just barred a good customer from BJ play? If I get backed off, I think I'll tell them thanks for the compliment, because it's flattering even if it isn't true.
How do you react when backed off?
- Thread starter aslan
- Start date
If a casino decides to back you off, they've reached a solid conclusion that it's a bad business decision to allow you to continue to play blackjack. Acting dumb or making a scene isn't going to change anything. Leaving quickly and quitely is the surest way to avoid being remembered should you return at some point in the future.
I act like an ordinary patron would in that situation.
"You're kidding, right?"
"Don't pull my leg, you don't really work here."
"Are you allowed to talk to a customer like that?"
"Well I'll tell you what, if that's the way you treat your customers around here, screw this place, I'll go play someplace else. And your buffet stinks too."
Then as I cash out, I complain to the cashier about how rudely I've been treated and that I'm never coming here again.
"You're kidding, right?"
"Don't pull my leg, you don't really work here."
"Are you allowed to talk to a customer like that?"
"Well I'll tell you what, if that's the way you treat your customers around here, screw this place, I'll go play someplace else. And your buffet stinks too."
Then as I cash out, I complain to the cashier about how rudely I've been treated and that I'm never coming here again.
Just pick up my chips and out the door
Give them no reason to remember you. I will generally pick up my chips, not go to the cashier and hit the door. The chips can be cashed later, the next day, the next shift or by a friend. They take really good photos at the cage.
You may not be an advantage player and it still does not matter. If someone has taken the time to come and tell you that you may no longer play blackjack, you can not change that decision and it is also very likely that you are only seeing the messenger and not the decision maker. If you want to pay them back immediately you can make a scene, perhaps cause some of their players to leave, but if you do this, your chance of returning later is greatly reduced.
If you are not an advantage player and they back you off? Go to it, embarrass them, make a scene, be shocked because you should be. But you never know. Go too far and they might trump up police or gaming charges and then after they make your life hell, you might own the casino. Then you would be an advantage player but that play has a very high ROR.
ihate17
Give them no reason to remember you. I will generally pick up my chips, not go to the cashier and hit the door. The chips can be cashed later, the next day, the next shift or by a friend. They take really good photos at the cage.
You may not be an advantage player and it still does not matter. If someone has taken the time to come and tell you that you may no longer play blackjack, you can not change that decision and it is also very likely that you are only seeing the messenger and not the decision maker. If you want to pay them back immediately you can make a scene, perhaps cause some of their players to leave, but if you do this, your chance of returning later is greatly reduced.
If you are not an advantage player and they back you off? Go to it, embarrass them, make a scene, be shocked because you should be. But you never know. Go too far and they might trump up police or gaming charges and then after they make your life hell, you might own the casino. Then you would be an advantage player but that play has a very high ROR.
ihate17
The reason why I like to react like an ordinary patron is that they can never be 100% sure you are an AP, and given the low intelligence of casino personnel they have probably backed off plenty of non-AP's. I want to leave them wondering.
The reason why is that if they have doubts after the fact, they might be less likely to flyer me around town, because no one likes to lose credibility among his peers by spreading false alarms. People in those jobs are often looking for work themselves and a reputation in his store and others for being a moron who can't tell an AP from a muggle is one they will try to avoid. If you act like an AP would and they flyer, you will be getting flyered.
The reason why is that if they have doubts after the fact, they might be less likely to flyer me around town, because no one likes to lose credibility among his peers by spreading false alarms. People in those jobs are often looking for work themselves and a reputation in his store and others for being a moron who can't tell an AP from a muggle is one they will try to avoid. If you act like an AP would and they flyer, you will be getting flyered.
Some good points
Automonk
I understand your reasoning and logic here. It does make sense but I am not so sure just how often or how serious they consider you before they flyer. With perhaps 50 or so backoffs over years, just in Nevada, I never have thought that I got backed off because of a flyer. Not that it could not happen but for instance, I do not think I have ever been backed off twice in one day or even in consecutive days. I got backed off once in a Park Place joint, left and went to the Park Place Palace where I was staying and played perhaps 7 hours of blackjack over the next two days there without incident.
Got barred from Harrah's LV years back and went to their locals with no locals casino and the HET folks there gave me no heat at all though I was unrated.
Perhaps they are afraid my looks would destroy their cameras or perhaps my quick exit and lack of trip to the cashier prevented them from getting a decent photo. Or perhaps, I was just lucky. Anyway, one thing for sure, upon return I was not remembered.
ihate17
Automonk
I understand your reasoning and logic here. It does make sense but I am not so sure just how often or how serious they consider you before they flyer. With perhaps 50 or so backoffs over years, just in Nevada, I never have thought that I got backed off because of a flyer. Not that it could not happen but for instance, I do not think I have ever been backed off twice in one day or even in consecutive days. I got backed off once in a Park Place joint, left and went to the Park Place Palace where I was staying and played perhaps 7 hours of blackjack over the next two days there without incident.
Got barred from Harrah's LV years back and went to their locals with no locals casino and the HET folks there gave me no heat at all though I was unrated.
Perhaps they are afraid my looks would destroy their cameras or perhaps my quick exit and lack of trip to the cashier prevented them from getting a decent photo. Or perhaps, I was just lucky. Anyway, one thing for sure, upon return I was not remembered.
ihate17
Remember the backoff as real as a possibility it is, should be a very infrequent occurence. I would not perceive a backoff as a right of passage into advantage play, I would think it more of a mistake that should be addressed. Now its understandable that there are extreme sweat shops that anyone would be hard pressed to get through unscathed. Then again I would choose not to play those stores and look for more friendly confines. If you play long enough a backoff is likely, but not inevitable. Playing smart means more than profiency in your system. There is a whole world of advantage play that so many fail to recognize when learning how to play. Learn your surroundings, acquire a world class poker players instincts on body language and tells to read pit personnel and casino staff, learn what time limits you should put on sessions, don't play across shift changes, and remember everything a counter does a ploppy will seemingly do. You would be surprised how many world renowned AP's can still play without incident eventhough they have been barred from most major properties just by fine tuning their game. Hey a backoff can sometimes happen even if you are cautious, but more times than not its an avoidable situation that you just didn't recognize in time. Look at it this way, how good is the thief that gauges his prowess by the amount of times he was caught. Its the thief who you've never heard of that really warrants the attention but thankfully never gets it.
If you appeared severly mentally retarded i don't think they'd let you play. It's unlikely that you would have legal custody of yourself, hence would be considered a junior. Just my first instincts on the idea.
As to getting backed off, if you keep your session times reasonable - listen to the advice that just about every authority give, becoming a headstone at the tables isn't a good thing - and learn to choose the venues that you play with respect to both playing conditions and venue conditions, backing offs shouldn't be something that you should become accustomed to dealing with. You'd be surprised at the number of real pros out there who have been playing for years without being backed off.
RJT.
As to getting backed off, if you keep your session times reasonable - listen to the advice that just about every authority give, becoming a headstone at the tables isn't a good thing - and learn to choose the venues that you play with respect to both playing conditions and venue conditions, backing offs shouldn't be something that you should become accustomed to dealing with. You'd be surprised at the number of real pros out there who have been playing for years without being backed off.
RJT.
I have seen obvious retardates (mongolism) playing roulette in Puerto Rico. To my horror, when I left I saw the vans from the PR department of mental retardation parked there- they had been taken on an outing to the casino by their keepers. But I wouldn't recommend feigning retardation if you are playing more than dollar stakes because they will wonder where you got the money, and you might face some police questioning. Feigning a physical handicap is a better idea, if you can figure out a use for it.
Backoffs are like penalties in football (US) in that too many will cost you the game, but if you never get any you're not playing aggressively enough which will also cost you games. The best football players are occasionally penalized for overly aggressive play but never for sloppy or undisciplined play. Likewise, we shouldn't be afraid to get backed off for getting our big spreads down and our EV in, while avoiding the avoidable mistakes like camping out too long or failing to rathole.
Backoffs are like penalties in football (US) in that too many will cost you the game, but if you never get any you're not playing aggressively enough which will also cost you games. The best football players are occasionally penalized for overly aggressive play but never for sloppy or undisciplined play. Likewise, we shouldn't be afraid to get backed off for getting our big spreads down and our EV in, while avoiding the avoidable mistakes like camping out too long or failing to rathole.
I agree that you with most of what you've said but the above statement is, i believe misleading. I personally know several professional players (players who are drawing the significant majority of their income from blackjack play, and are far from struggling to get by) who have not been backed off in years of play and getting backed off has been a one off event to those who have been.
It's quite possible to avoid being backed off if you are prepared to travel around, and as stated before, keep sessions short and choose your venues carfully.
RJT.
It's quite possible to avoid being backed off if you are prepared to travel around, and as stated before, keep sessions short and choose your venues carfully.
RJT.
I was playing at a table with a guy who I'm pretty sure had a mental disability. He didn't catch any heat, so you might want to give it a try. Whatever his first two cards were, he would double down and say, "Give me the ace!" Once his wallet was empty, he asked for a pack of cigarettes and left. Just another one of those "stupidest thing I've ever seen" moments I guess.
I guess this could work for an AP as long as you didn't double down when you say, "Give me the ace!" Like if you're hitting a 12 or something. That would definately throw me off if I was watching.
I guess this could work for an AP as long as you didn't double down when you say, "Give me the ace!" Like if you're hitting a 12 or something. That would definately throw me off if I was watching.