How do you take advantge of great Pen?

[21forme]

A dealer was consistently cutting 1/2-3/4 of a deck out of a 6 deck shoe. Unfortunately, after 4 or 5 shoes, I never hit a good count. This was at a NMS table, so I couldn't wong in until reshuffle, if I quit the shoe.

I'll keep an eye out for the dealer in the future, hoping to hit a good shoe. Am I missing any way to take advantage, besides just wait for a good count, when a dealer deeply cuts a shoe?

 

[Sonny]

Since it is a NMS game your best strategy is to sit back and wait for the good counts. You will see a lot more profitable hands with penetration that deep. There will still be some dry spells while you’re waiting, but don’t get discouraged. Normally about 1-in-5 shoes become positive so it’s very easy to sit for a while and not see anything good. This game could be a golden opportunity so be patient and stick it out.

-Sonny-

 

[Mimosine]

Since it is a NMS game your best strategy is to sit back and wait for the good counts. You will see a lot more profitable hands with penetration that deep. There will still be some dry spells while you’re waiting, but don’t get discouraged. Normally about 1-in-5 shoes become positive so it’s very easy to sit for a while and not see anything good. This game could be a golden opportunity so be patient and stick it out.

-Sonny-

Agreed!

i often play through shoes because where i play has a limitted number of tables. and i can easily go 2-3 shoes without seeing anything worthwhile. sad, but true. but 1/2 deck cutoff is insane! where i play we have about 1 deck cutoff which is around 80% pen, which can get really good - if you wait it out.

 

[rogue1]

wow

21forme-
if you're getting that kind of pen just keep playing-great things WILL happen.

 

[21forme]

When I first saw that cut card go in, my mouth dropped. I certainly will look for her next time I'm there and hang in there for a positive count. This morning the problem was I had to get home for work. SHame how that gets in the way of things...

 

[Kasi]

i often play through shoes because where i play has a limitted number of tables. and i can easily go 2-3 shoes without seeing anything worthwhile. sad, but true. but 1/2 deck cutoff is insane! where i play we have about 1 deck cutoff which is around 80% pen, which can get really good - if you wait it out.

I guess you could try, if conditions aren't crowded, leaving after 1.5 decks in neg counts since it's not that likely the count will change in time.

Just a general question for anyone, in say a 6 or 8 deck shoe, when do u wong out if u sat down. Like at what count after how many decks have been dealt?

 

[Tom007]

I mostly sit down on a new shoe and will tolerate a running count of -4 on the first deck, after that any true count of 0 or less I wong out.

 

[Kasi]

I mostly sit down on a new shoe and will tolerate a running count of -4 on the first deck, after that any true count of 0 or less I wong out.

Sounds reasonable to me - why hang around longer than you have to.

 

[bluewhale]

as soon as teh TC hits -1 i'm out.

 

[Mimosine]

I guess you could try, if conditions aren't crowded, leaving after 1.5 decks in neg counts since it's not that likely the count will change in time.

Just a general question for anyone, in say a 6 or 8 deck shoe, when do u wong out if u sat down. Like at what count after how many decks have been dealt?

following the guidelines in KO for 6D
IRC = -20
wong out after 1 deck RC = -22
2 decks RC = -17
3 decks RC = -12

in all cases the TC = -1.5

 

[NDN21]

Are the decks hand-shuffled?

If they are then here is what you can do.

Keep the TC all the way to end of the shoe. If the count is negative then you know that the count of the slug of cards behind the cut card will be positive by the same amount that it was negative. Example- running count is -15 when the dealer gets to the cut card so you know that the count of the cards remaining in the shoe has to be +15, right?

Then follow that slug of cards around as she shuffles the decks. Then you can cut that slug into or out of play.

The big problem is that the dealer will usually divide up that slug into 2 or more packs and place those in the different spots in the discarded cards. There is also some math you need to do but that is more advanced. I am just getting into shuffle-tracking.

Something along these lines happened to me at a casino here in Oklahoma.

This casino is usually a machine-shuffled place but on this night, a Friday, all the tables were full and all of the shuffle machines were in use. There were not enough shuffle machines for every table so the dealer at one table would have to resort to hand-shuffling six decks. It became very clear very quick that the dealer at this table was not accustomed to hand shuffling. I do not play in Oklahoma because of the $0.50 ante requirement, I only go to to do a skill check (and to accompany my sister who plays poker).

But this night had to be different. I kept the running count up to the cut card. It was at -19 and there was still about 60 cards left in the shoe. To my amazement the dealer did not divide the slug containg the +19 count into pieces but rather just placed the entire slug on top of the discards. That meant that I knew where a slug of high cards was going to be in the next shoe!!! Not only that but I keep a side count of aces and there were nine aces in that slug with the high cards!!!

Out came a $200 from my wallet and down onto the table. The dealer shuffled the cards very clumsily, alternating what must have been four or five cards from one pack in her right hand then four or five cards from the other pack in her left hand. This casino was usually a machine-shuffled joint but not that table and not tonight!!!

I watched that slug of high cards get shuffled with another slug and I kept track of where that mixed pack went. I had to sort of get overbearing when it came to the cut card, insisting that I cut the cards but I am sure you can understand that there was no way in Hades I could let someone else cut the deck when I knew where there was going to be alot of high cards and aces.

My plan worked out beautifully and I actually kind of surprised myself as I only practiced shuffle-tracking for a short period of time previous to this experience. I adjusted the running count and kept an eye on where the slug of high cards was going to end. I ended up hitting three BJ's and won most of the hands. My betting ramp started at 7 $10 units and went as high as 15 until what I thought was the end of the slug of high cards when I went down to $5 and played four more rounds to make sure the slug was through then I quit. I actually ramped my betting down two rounds too soon but I will get over it.

$200 into $2100, my biggest score yet. I can handle that regardless of the $0.50 ante. I watched that table all night but either the count was not significant enough to jump back in at the end of the shoe or a different dealer who shuffled properly shuffled the cards.

 

[CarlB]

as soon as teh TC hits -1 i'm out.

I a 6-deck shoe if you get out if the TC hits -1% then you will be walking more than you are playing. I get out at -4% iff the next hand goes more minus (tens clump). If even or slightly plus next hand then I walk.

 

[Automatic Monkey]

I a 6-deck shoe if you get out if the TC hits -1% then you will be walking more than you are playing. I get out at -4% iff the next hand goes more minus (tens clump). If even or slightly plus next hand then I walk.

You are mixing gambler's superstition in with advantage play terminology. Tens do not "clump".

Being you are already comfortable with the Uston Plus Minus system tags, I recommend you get Uston's book in which he shows how to implement this count (which book is that, anybody know?) before you visit a casino again.

 

[c_st]

You are missing something

A dealer was consistently cutting 1/2-3/4 of a deck out of a 6 deck shoe. Unfortunately, after 4 or 5 shoes, I never hit a good count. This was at a NMS table, so I couldn't wong in until reshuffle, if I quit the shoe.

I'll keep an eye out for the dealer in the future, hoping to hit a good shoe. Am I missing any way to take advantage, besides just wait for a good count, when a dealer deeply cuts a shoe?

As you know, if you use KO, you would count 24 more cards than HiLo, which means you have a great read on the remaining 1/2-3/4 deck over a HiLo better. Granted the biggest benefit to counters is BC, but when you get down to those few cards, you have a great read on the remaining cards. Here's a tip (note it is not foolproof, but it works): since the count naturally increases by +4 for each deck, on average, with KO, you have a good insight on the ratio of aces & tens to 2's through 7's. So long as you hit the pivot point, which is highly likely, you have a huge edge. Even if you cross the key count late in the shoe, you should be betting more to recover your seat costs.

For counter who use TC, Arnold Snyder mentioned a TC deep in the shoe is more valuable than earlier in the shoe. He mentioned he might bet the same amount at a TC of +2 late in the shoe as if it was a TC of +3 early in the shoe. I suspect the reason is there is less variance deep in the shoe.

Good luck.

 

[EasyRhino]

For counter who use TC, Arnold Snyder mentioned a TC deep in the shoe is more valuable than earlier in the shoe. He mentioned he might bet the same amount at a TC of +2 late in the shoe as if it was a TC of +3 early in the shoe. I suspect the reason is there is less variance deep in the shoe.

Oh, I just read this bit about "floating advantage" in Blackjack Attack. Here's the gist of it:

1) It doesn't really matter.
2) If a 6D game gets dealt down to 1 deck, and the TC remains zero, then the 1 deck left is actually going to have a smaller house edge, similar to that of, you guessed it, a singledeck game. In other words, you just "converted" from a 6D game to a 1D game.
3) The effect is even more pronounced if you get down to half-deck remaining.
4) To take advantage of this, you would ramp your bets sooner once you're down under a deck less (bet more at TC +1, more at TC+2, etc).
5) The effect on your overall advantage, even if you can find such a game, will still be very small.