How much should my Bankroll/Betting unit be??

Q

quicklearner

Member
#1
#1
YES

I have seen Semyons' DVD where he says your unit should be 1/500 of your total money willing to invest in BJ

But, I have also seen Andy Blochs' DVD where he says that your unit should be 1/1000 of your bankroll...???

I have $20 000 which I want to invest...WHAT SHOULD MY UNIT BE IF I WANT A 1-8 BET SPREAD.WHILE PLAYING WITH WONG HI-LO AND ILLUSTRIOUS 18 INDEXES
PLEASE GIVE ME YOUR INPUT ON WHAT I SHOULD MAKE MY UNIT FOR A 20 000 BANK ROLL,AND USING A 1-8 BET SPREAD.

AND IF YOU CAN HELP ME CALCULATE MY RISK OF RUIN....sORRY NEVERMIND.ITS JUST THAT I DON T FULLY UNDERSTAND WHERE TO GET THESE FIGURES FOR THE CALCULATOR HERE http://www.qfit.com/CVRoRC.htm

THANKS FOR YOUR TIME MEN.
 
Sonny

Sonny

Well-Known Member
#2
#2
It depends on what kind of risk you are willing to take with this investment, what kind of return you are able to earn and what kind of swings you will experience along the way. Use the next six months to develop your playing skills, then you can start making a plan of attack. You’ll probably want at least a few months of low-stakes experience before you put your full bankroll at risk, so put away that $20k for a year or so at a good rate (CDs, T-Bills and money market accounts are good low-variance options). By the time you are ready for it you will have a nice healthy bankroll waiting for you.

-Sonny-
 
Q

quicklearner

Member
#3
#3
Hi SONNY .
Maybe you see that I have only a few posts out there...

But the thing is I have maybe 500 hrs of practice,I still plan to practice for another 3 or so months.
I am a few weeks away from setting up my home casino(Excited) the works!!
.
\But, I wanted to know that I was playing with the most realistic game .
So that when in the casinos I will be TOTALLY SURE of myself.
I am currently only using the most humble options of betting unit ($20)

But I have been practicing Using my ficticious BR of $20 000 and a $40 unit-IS THAT GOING IN OVER MY HEAD?

This sounds exciting '' put away that $20k for a year or so at a good rate (CDs, T-Bills and money market accounts are good low-variance options).""


I got injured at my job and am now unable to do what I did.It would help me very much get on my feet if you could tell me about these "Money market accounts & T-Bills'' etc

Thanks bud

MMMMMM
 
Sonny

Sonny

Well-Known Member
#4
#4
quicklearner said:
But I have been practicing Using my ficticious BR of $20 000 and a $40 unit-IS THAT GOING IN OVER MY HEAD?
Click to expand...
It depends on what kind of bet spread you plan to use. Typically your max bet should be no more than 1% of your bankroll, so for $20,000 you will bet up to $200 per hand. For a 1:10 spread you would use a $20 minimum bet, or a 1:20 spread would use a $5 minimum bet. A $40 minimum bet would be a 1:5 spread, which won’t be enough unless you can avoid negative counts.

If you plan on playing BJ for a living you will need to understand the math behind it as well. You will need to know your expected value (EV) and standard deviation (SD) in order to find out what your chances of going broke are, how long it will take to get the money, what kind of swings you will experience in the short run, and some other useful information. It’s going to take at least a few more months before you are ready to make a plan of attack. Read through the Frequently Asked Questions thread and the Free Counting Resources thread for some valuable tips. Books like Don Schlesinger’s Blackjack Attack will give you a good introduction to most of the concepts you’ll need to know to get started.

-Sonny-
 
J

jaredmt

Well-Known Member
#5
#5
what if ur bankroll is $500 or less?
im gunna try to get really good before i hit a casino. so hopefully if im like a master at home, i will be good enough to have an edge at the casino. but i just dont have that much money to loose

is it really that big of a risk to play with like 2% of ur bank roll? how often does a skilled player go down 50 units in 1 night?

has any1 here done that? (assuming u knew what u were doing)
 
G

Guynoire

Well-Known Member
#6
#6
jaredmt said:
is it really that big of a risk to play with like 2% of ur bank roll? how often does a skilled player go down 50 units in 1 night?
Click to expand...
Pretty often, just think about that's only 5 big bets. It's not that hard to lose 5 big bets especially if you consider splits and double downs. If you play with a $500 bankroll and a $10 min eventually you will have bad luck and lose it all.
 
B

bjcount

Well-Known Member
#7
#7
jaredmt said:
what if ur bankroll is $500 or less?
im gunna try to get really good before i hit a casino. so hopefully if im like a master at home, i will be good enough to have an edge at the casino. but i just dont have that much money to loose

is it really that big of a risk to play with like 2% of ur bank roll? how often does a skilled player go down 50 units in 1 night?

has any1 here done that? (assuming u knew what u were doing)
Click to expand...
Too often to count....

Say your at a +5 ($10x10u) and lose 5 hands in a row.... busted or
TC +4 and 2 hands at ($10x6u ea) and lose 4 hands in a row....$20 left...

You lose much more $$$ when the count is high... and the dealer is getting the Tens...

Then when your broke, the dealer is breaking and the players are winning..

BJC
 
Sonny

Sonny

Well-Known Member
#9
#9
jaredmt said:
what if ur bankroll is $500 or less?
Click to expand...
You'll either need to replenish it pretty often or play extremely carefully (probably both). There is a section in the Frequently Asked Questions about playing with a small bankroll that has some good tips.

jaredmt said:
how often does a skilled player go down 50 units in 1 night?
Click to expand...
Forget about a night, a card counter can easily lose 30-60 units in a single hour. The advantage is small and the swings are huge. :(

-Sonny-
 
C

callipygian

Well-Known Member
#10
#10
quicklearner said:
This sounds exciting '' put away that $20k for a year or so at a good rate (CDs, T-Bills and money market accounts are good low-variance options).""

I got injured at my job and am now unable to do what I did.It would help me very much get on my feet if you could tell me about these "Money market accounts & T-Bills'' etc
Click to expand...
You should talk with a financial advisor about your situation and learn more about investing in general. If you live in the United States, I suggest taking advantage of some free resources - an appointment at your bank can educate you about CD's and perhaps money market accounts; an appointment with a discount brokerage house (e.g. Schwab, Vanguard) can educate you about stocks, mutual funds, etc. The "for Dummies" series is also a pretty good read ("Investing for Dummies", "Stocks for Dummies", etc).

I strongly suggest you get your finances in order before you play blackjack. Blackjack is a high variance game, and if you're not on solid financial footing, an unlucky streak could be very bad for you. Sonny's first post contained some great advice - try it out on a small scale before you commit your full bankroll.
 
J

jaredmt

Well-Known Member
#11
#11
ok well if i did bring $1000. i dont bet when the TC is less than -1. my min bet is $10 and max is $30. ($20 @ +2 and $30 @ +4). can any1 calculate or estimate my risk of ruin?

i'd like to keep my risk down to like 5% or less if possible for now.
 
R

rukus

Well-Known Member
#12
#12
jaredmt said:
ok well if i did bring $1000. i dont bet when the TC is less than -1. my min bet is $10 and max is $30. ($20 @ +2 and $30 @ +4). can any1 calculate or estimate my risk of ruin?

i'd like to keep my risk down to like 5% or less if possible for now.
Click to expand...
not answering your question, but with a BR of 1k, dont even bother playing negative running counts, unless there really are no tables available elsewhere. you should be on your feet and ready to move whenever the count goes south. dont even sit down for the first deal of a new shoe. stand behind the seat - if the count goes south, walk and find another table, if it goes north, stick around.
 
Traveller

Traveller

Active Member
#14
#14
ok here goes. This is for 6 deck, 78 card cut, dealer hits S17, DAS RSA up to 4 hands. If your rules are different let me know.

Basically this game with this spread is not worth the effort.

Your win per hour/100 rounds is $1.93 S.E $0.23
per shoe $0.79 S.E $0.09

this was run over 40 Million rounds, your chance of losing $1000 is 39% while your chances of doubling this if you have a good run is 53.2%

However if you wong out every time the count is less than true 1 then things are slightly better as you would expect.

Win per hour /100 rounds is $4.90 S.E $0.21
per shoe $2.09 S.E $0.09

this was run over 23 Million rounds, your chance of losing $1000 is 18.4% the chances of doubling this is 89.5%

T.
 
Sonny

Sonny

Well-Known Member
#15
#15
Traveller said:
Your win per hour/100 rounds is $1.93 S.E $0.23
per shoe $0.79 S.E $0.09

this was run over 40 Million rounds, your chance of losing $1000 is 39% while your chances of doubling this if you have a good run is 53.2%
Click to expand...
What was the SD for that? With an hourly EV of 0.19 and a RoR of 39% it must have been around 6.3 units per hour, but that doesn't sound right. It seems like the variance should be much higher than that. What did the sim give for hourly SD?

-Sonny-
 
Traveller

Traveller

Active Member
#16
#16
Hi Sonny,

the SD on the first part of 40 Million rounds is $127 per hour or $83 per shoe.

I have to go out now, i will let the sim run for a few hours if you want exact numbers i will get them to you tonight.

T.
 
Sonny

Sonny

Well-Known Member
#17
#17
Traveller said:
the SD on the first part of 40 Million rounds is $127 per hour or $83 per shoe.
Click to expand...
With an hourly EV of 0.19 units and an hourly SD of 12.7 units I get a RoR of 79%. :confused:

-Sonny-
 
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