How to handle mispays

[peaegg]

mispay is part of the game

Here are some of my personal experiences of mispay.

Fresh new dealer out of school, every time someone has a BJ, she pays 2 bucks plus the original. the table minimum was 10. So she short paying people a lot and no one complained for a while until I caught on. The pit thanked me and asked me to correct the dealer if it happens again. Players were not paid back for previous BJs.

At a major strip casino, someone asked for a 10k marker. Approved quickly. When he was paid out, the dealer stacked 11 orange chips and pushed to the player. The player left right away after he counted the chips, not even played one hand. It wasn't too long, the pit realized a missing orange but didn't have any clue what happened. I was the only other player on the table and was amazed. But kept my mouth shut. If someone asked me nicely, I would have told them the truth. Videos may not show the mistake as the way the chips were laid. It was the dealer's fault but pit didn't verified with his eyes. He was busy getting the paper work done for the marker. When he asked to check the chips, he was said "go ahead" from a remote distance.

I was payed 3 blacks for my 2 greens for a BJ. I hesitated and was just about to say something, players on both sides whispered to me to take it. They said you never know. You could be ripped off the next time.

Overall, if you play long enough and open your eyes, you can find many mispays. Many ploppies will take the advantages of over pays. Small amount of people will correct the dealer for overpay. If you find a mispay to your disadvantage, don't hesitate talking to the pit, even after a hand or a shoe is over. I was paid back a couple blacks once after a couple shoes later, after reviewing the tape.

 

[Dyepaintball12]

Here are some of my personal experiences of mispay.

Fresh new dealer out of school, every time someone has a BJ, she pays 2 bucks plus the original. the table minimum was 10. So she short paying people a lot and no one complained for a while until I caught on. The pit thanked me and asked me to correct the dealer if it happens again. Players were not paid back for previous BJs.

At a major strip casino, someone asked for a 10k marker. Approved quickly. When he was paid out, the dealer stacked 11 orange chips and pushed to the player. The player left right away after he counted the chips, not even played one hand. It wasn't too long, the pit realized a missing orange but didn't have any clue what happened. I was the only other player on the table and was amazed. But kept my mouth shut. If someone asked me nicely, I would have told them the truth. Videos may not show the mistake as the way the chips were laid. It was the dealer's fault but pit didn't verified with his eyes. He was busy getting the paper work done for the marker. When he asked to check the chips, he was said "go ahead" from a remote distance.

I was payed 3 blacks for my 2 greens for a BJ. I hesitated and was just about to say something, players on both sides whispered to me to take it. They said you never know. You could be ripped off the next time.

Overall, if you play long enough and open your eyes, you can find many mispays. Many ploppies will take the advantages of over pays. Small amount of people will correct the dealer for overpay. If you find a mispay to your disadvantage, don't hesitate talking to the pit, even after a hand or a shoe is over. I was paid back a couple blacks once after a couple shoes later, after reviewing the tape.

That's how you make money quick!

But seriously, even without that $1k extra that would look a lot like money laundering.

 

[peaegg]

money laundering?

That's how you make money quick!

But seriously, even without that $1k extra that would look a lot like money laundering.

The player acted very surprised when he counted the chips. I am not sure if he intended to play a hand originally because the table limit was 100. He was standing during the time. Unless the dealer and the player were very good actors, I think the mistake was caused by pure carelessness of the dealer. She was just switched in. In a quickest motion, she stacked those orange chips in two piles, 5 and 6 chips each before stack all in one. Those dealers have seen too much actions that they don't care much about the oranges.

Don't you think 10k is a strange number for money laundering though? I would think some one would either do it under 10k or a lot more than 10k. I have seen one lady bought in LARGE amount with cash, multiple times. She only played a couple hands each time. The time she spent in buying chips were 10 time longer than what she spent on playing the game. That was more like money laundering to me.

I have seen amazing things happened in the LV, yet I have only been there a few times per year.

 

[Dyepaintball12]

The player acted very surprised when he counted the chips. I am not sure if he intended to play a hand originally because the table limit was 100. He was standing during the time. Unless the dealer and the player were very good actors, I think the mistake was caused by pure carelessness of the dealer. She was just switched in. In a quickest motion, she stacked those orange chips in two piles, 5 and 6 chips each before stack all in one. Those dealers have seen too much actions that they don't care much about the oranges.

Don't you think 10k is a strange number for money laundering though? I would think some one would either do it under 10k or a lot more than 10k. I have seen one lady bought in LARGE amount with cash, multiple times. She only played a couple hands each time. The time she spent in buying chips were 10 time longer than what she spent on playing the game. That was more like money laundering to me.

I have seen amazing things happened in the LV, yet I have only been there a few times per year.

Hey, you gotta do it anyway you can eh? :laugh:

But seriously, buying in for large amounts of money and playing very quickly does NOT look good in the eyes of the casino. Doesn't matter if you were ML'ing or not, it sure looks that way.

 

[tribute]

At a major strip casino, someone asked for a 10k marker. Approved quickly. When he was paid out, the dealer stacked 11 orange chips and pushed to the player.
.

I thought this size of transaction would require the casino to fill out a CTR.
Or does it have to be for more than $10 K?

 

[peaegg]

Ctr

I thought this size of transaction would require the casino to fill out a CTR.
Or does it have to be for more than $10 K?

I think you are right. Requirements may not be followed though. That guy definitely left without signing his check. Also I have seen players repeated buy in 10k with cash. No CTR at all. I think at the cage when someone cashing out 10k or larger, there would more likely trigger CTR.

 

[tthree]

I bet they got it back from him. The eye saw it.

 

[pit15]

A 10K marker does not trigger a CTR, there's no CASH involved.

Buying in for > 10K cash triggers a CTR, but there's several situations no documentation is asked for.

1) The buy ins are recorded wrong and total up to less then 10K in the computer
2) The player is playing rated and already has CTR information on file
3) There's some other f-up by the pit/casino

For the 11 orange thing.. I doubt it was intentional, if it was then it's a sloppy crappy job of cheating the house. If I were the guy getting the marker, I would play orange for a hand or two before leaving. That way there's orange action and the missing orange would be assumed to be my winnings. But since it's a ploppy, they're probably not aware of the fact that orange chips are tracked closely at the table.

 

[Nynefingers]

Some fun recent examples

I've experienced a few mispays recently. The first one was the biggest mispay I've personally experienced. I had one dealer who incorrectly paid me $250 when they should have taken my $300, for a nice $550 swing in my favor. I halfway expected that the eye in the sky may have caught it as my bets were among the larger bets in the place at the time. I decided to stay and play and see what happened, although in general with an error that big, my advice would be to leave after a few more hands. After a few minutes with no call from the eye, I was pleased to have some confirmation that I wasn't being watched too closely. There were around 2 or 3 other people at the table when this happened and nobody said a word.

Later in the day, this same dealer paid me in green on a $500 win. He broke down the chips in stacks of 5, like he would if he was paying with red, but he still made 5 stacks like you would with green (with stacks of $100). The end result was he had $625 on the table instead of $500. This payout was checked and verified by the floor. I acted like I was confused about the payout (this amongst a couple of other simultaneous payouts) partly so it wouldn't look like I was taking a shot when the error was inevitably caught when he broke down the chip stacks to actually pay me. The dealer restacked the chips into a stack of 25 chips and went to pay my bet. He started to break it down there, correctly cutting off $100, but the floor stopped him and said, and I quote, "you don't need to break it down again. He knows it's $500." I immediately (yet casually) grabbed a little over half of the stack and started randomly adding it to the stacks I had in front of me to make it impossible to recount it without reviewing tape. I just couldn't believe that a dealer could pick up a stack of "20" chips and not realize it's off by a full 5! Hell I can grab 20 chips off of a taller stack in one try 95% of the time, and if I'm off, it's by 1 or 2, not 5. I was fortunate enough to have this same error just days later in a different game in a different state, again verified by the floor.

 

[pit15]

The most mispays I've gotten was ~3K worth in 1 shift.

Sad part is I still lost money that shift...

 

[StudiodeKadent]

I've never been mispaid. However there have been some circumstances where the dealer hasn't played correctly by the rules.

One time at Aria (geez, this is becoming my "this one time, at band camp") a dealer accidentally hit a soft 17 when I was playing at an S17 table. I politely pointed it out and it was fixed quickly.

And one time in Macau, I was playing at the Plaza at the Four Seasons (next door to the Venetian). The dealer, who was very nice and friendly, accidentally took ENHC when the rules of the casino were OBO. That dealer probably just came from the Sands, where at the time they took ENHC.

I simply politely pointed out the mistakes and all was resolved in a very quick, professional fashion.

I do hope none of the dealers were penalized. They were all very nice.

 

[Nynefingers]

The most mispays I've gotten was ~3K worth in 1 shift.

Sad part is I still lost money that shift...

I lost money on the shift mentioned above :cry: Oh well...I'd rather get the big mispays on losing sessions than winning sessions if I had the choice. Just seems like it stands out less when you are down for the day.

 

[pit15]

I correct dealers all the time when they short pay me. I stop the dealer immediately before they move on to the next hand. This way the dealer just makes the right payout, the pit isn't called, no attention is drawn.

One of my funniest mispays was this (on 3 card):

I had a K high on one of my hands, dealer had a pair of Q's. For some reason the dealer doesn't go to my 2nd hand, starts sweeping up the cards and shuffling them (I'm letting him do this). After he riffles the cards once I point it out to him that he didn't get to my second hand. He's not sure what to do so I'm just like "Eh, just call it a push". He shrugs his shoulders, takes my hand and puts it with the rest of the cards and starts dealing the next hand :laugh:. I knew this would most likely be the outcome since this guy doesn't follow a lot of procedures and does a ton of stuff on his own when he should be calling the floor over. He makes big payouts (incorrectly) without calling anyone. Doesn't call them when the machine red lights, doesn't clear his hands before going to the body. He's not stealing or doing anything wrong intentionally, he's lazy, hates the casino, and doesn't give a **** for their policies.

Of course, on the above, if the floor was called I would just say I lost the hand but I wouldn't mind if they called it a push . Under no circumstance would I cause a call upstairs to confirm anything. I would tell them exactly what the dealer had and let them take my bets. All that's going to happen with a call upstairs is them confirming I lost and bringing a ton of heat onto my game for nothing.

There's PCs I know who would just say "f it, call it a push" in that situation. Remember, nobody cares about your money more then you. There's also plenty of PCs who'll take my word for things like the amount i bought in for (I won't lie to them about this though, I will get them to put in buy ins of mine that were actually missed) and how many black chips I'm leaving with (this they can verify of course).