I hate camoflage

[Dopple]

I hate to have to camoflage my play. I think they are going to see real quick if you are doubling an 8 against a 4 or doubling an a7 or hitting a7 that you know the game. I just let it all hang out because I dont want to hassle with trying to hide my game.

I can tell when they start to clump the cards though because the count gets real high or real low quick and sometimes it never falls which means they are probably forcing the cut.

As soon as they make me they cut the pen drastically.

For lack of heat I used to like the Western is Vegas. It is a dump but you can spread 2-20 without a problem and it would be easy to make 100 in an hour.

Seems nowadays they almost know me once I come in the front door anymore.

 

[Sonny]

For lack of heat I used to like the Western is Vegas. It is a dump but you can spread 2-20 without a problem and it would be easy to make 100 in an hour.

Yeah, I used to love that place too. I would spread $1-$40 for an hour or two with no real heat, then hit the El Cortez on the way back to The Plaza. Of course, in those days the Western was all SD and they always had several tables open. It was a real candy store back then. The EV was only about $15/hr but the RoR was tiny!

I can tell when they start to clump the cards though because the count gets real high or real low quick and sometimes it never falls which means they are probably forcing the cut.

I don’t understand what you mean by that. How do they clump the cards?

Seems nowadays they almost know me once I come in the front door anymore.

If you are feeling too familiar, there are plenty of other places where a huge red spread will go completely unnoticed. It would be a shame to burn out your favorite store.

-Sonny-

 

[EasyRhino]

What kind of stakes are you playing, what kind of joint are you playing at, and what playing or betting camouflage are you using?

And what does the clumping thing mean? And "forcing the cut"?

 

[Knox]

I have seen plenty of ploppies doubling 8 v 2-6. What was the point of the original post anyway?

 

[Dopple]

Clumping is shuffling to put all the tens in one area of the deck, it is well documented.

The purpose of the original post was just to get a feel for what kind of players are in this group and some feedback on being spotted as a counter.

 

[Knox]

Other than myself this is a pretty solid and legit group. You'll find the gamut from newbies to voodoo wannabees, spooks that will never be made and play on a different plane, savants, legends of the game, you name it.

Some of us come and go between trips, others are on more strong and steady.

Welcome to the board, I think you will like it.

 

[ihate17]

camo

Camo that costs you EV is something no one likes and if you are playing the kind of stakes that are played at the Western, you certainly can not like it or afford it.
There are other forms of camoflage that will work for short to long periods that do not cost you EV. A lot of this is just personality and visual. Not acting like or looking like a stereotypical counter, being outgoing, making conversation with dealers and pits, all can help. Eventually, they may or may not figure things out.

If you think doubling or hitting soft 18 or doubling 8 at the proper times are dead giveaways that you know what you are doing, you should give the average pit critter a basic strategy test. Sure most casinos have pits and even dealers that know BS or might even know how to use a count system but the average pit thinks you are crazy to either hit or double a "perfectly good" 18. More likely there is someone in the eye who knows what he is doing, but the eye does not have the people to watch every player and will generally zero in on someone if something or someone (the pit) brings you to their attention.
So, bang away, especially at a red chip level at most places without worrying about camo, and if you get tossed from the Western, just smile and tell them you have been tossed by better places. I know people who have been backed off at the Western perhaps a dozen or more times. They return in a few months at a different shift and just play again.

ihate17

 

[Dopple]

Thanks for the feedback. To introduce myself I have been barred from the Bonanza in Vegas and the Peppermill in Reno many years ago. I love the game and have made money in Colorado with the 5 limit by spreading to the full table at favorable times that is 14 bets on a two by seven spot layout or 21 spots on triple action. I had a great run once and brought in about 2k in about 15 trips over a two month period but I think they caught on to my game and it seemed like they were clumping the tens and bringing in tougher dealers.

Against all rules of blackjack I did once play about 12 hrs straight at the Mirage when I was down 600 and almost broke I managed to get it all back. I dont mind 6 decks and like spreading to 3x35 or 2x50 in which case I will try and open the shoe with at least 10 to not look too serious.

 

[Sonny]

Welcome Kevinheap!

So what system do you use? Where do you usually play? I play mostly in California and Vegas, but we have players from all over the world on this website.

I had a great run once and brought in about 2k in about 15 trips over a two month period but I think they caught on to my game and it seemed like they were clumping the tens and bringing in tougher dealers.

I seriously doubt that they brought in cheating dealers to stack the deck against you. If they want to bar you they will bar you. They have no reason to resort to illegal tactics. And besides, if they are clumping the tens then you can just cut them to the front and get a huge advantage. I would love to play against a clumping dealer.

-Sonny-

 

[gallin432]

Can someone explain how they get the tens all together at the end of the shoe?

 

[Dopple]

Uston best system in million dollar book advanced apc maybe.

Play Vegas now and then. Been out of it for a while, played Sante NM a couple years ago and Deadwood SD. They shut down DD while I was in Deadwood.

 

[zengrifter]

Uston best system in million dollar book advanced apc maybe.

Obsolete, probably cost you a lot of money.

Clumping is shuffling to put all the tens in one area of the deck, it is well documented.

How do you think they can do that? zg

 

[Dopple]

All I know is that when the dealers get real precise when picking the stacks to shuffle on a 6d shoe the count seems to often stay high the whole deck and never come down and it go to much greater highs and low than before.

Clumping is well known.

 

[moo321]

Then cut the clump into play.

 

[Dopple]

I use UAPC whicn some say is outdate on another post but I dont want to have to remember the matrices for hard-soft doubling, hitting, and splitting again. Unless the point count with a newer system parallels the UAPC I would think the matrices would be grossly false.

I have played alot less lately and been a little discouraged actually but have less time with new family and baby.

I played in Bogota SA and have played Espanola NM, Atlantic City, Deadwood SD, Reno, Vegas.

I would love to meet up with some team players or at least one partner and get to know them and maybe plan a trip.