Inside the mind of a bj pro
- Thread starter bjcount
- Start date
creeping panther said:
Congrats on all the study and hard work, you are very dedicated. 
Now the hard part....find a fine game, FINE..game. Don't knock your head against the wall with a trash game. Then play the game, have at it, and see how you hold up. Then you will know the real truth as to your Skillz.
Best to you,
CP
Now the hard part....find a fine game, FINE..game. Don't knock your head against the wall with a trash game. Then play the game, have at it, and see how you hold up. Then you will know the real truth as to your Skillz.
Best to you,
CP
Thanks for your input!
BJC
bjcount - I think this means BJ pros should know BS before they play a game.
I'm no pro so I don't fully understand the need to quickly recall BS for those 2 plays since the BS is the same. I'm usually just happy recalling the plays that are different
bjcount - I think this means pros have to learn comprehensive nd concise BS charts so they can alternate their BS plays between the two and get out of that "mechanical" rut.
I just pick one ahead of time and play to it. It seems so simple, it doesn't even seem like "i'm thinking on my feet" or anything.
But, yeah, I confess to applying the correct BS "mechanically" after that.
bjcount - I'm not sure but I think this means BJ pros have to walk faster to create less time when switching tables to be prepared for the next game.
Maybe it means pros have so much to think about switching from DD to a shoe game, they have to think about each thing really quickly. Either way, another reason I'm no pro. I just take as much as time I need until I am 100% certain I know what I'm doing.
But I think I did learn something. I just never knew the best way to escape heat was to go count another game as quickly as you can.
bjcount - this is way over my head. It must be a nightmare when you feel the need to misplay some hands and you just sit there for a while waiting for one of them to happen. Must be tough to know when to just switch to another game when feeling heat or just misplay the game you are in.
bjcount - just in case you haven't yet taken the time to memorize all those 6-digit decimals, I want to warn you that the difference between the 6-digit decimals is not shown. So you'd have to subtract them or something to know how much extra they will cost you. In case you ever want to consistently misplay a hand, might as well memorize the 6-decimal frequencies too.
Another word of warning the ev's that are there do not apply anyway for extreme True counts - they are BS ev's.
bjcount - don't panic. For mere mortals I think this means run your sim software anytime you want.
bjcount - this just goes to show how even 40-year BJ counters can occasionally come across a totally unfamiliar situation like playing solo and wanting to take advantage of a good count for the first time in his career. And can be forgiven for being forced, with but a few short seconds available, to quickly miscalculate and over-bet a 3-hand spread. The next time a high-count happens when playing solo, I'm sure he'll bet properly.
And with all that other stuff a pro has to think about, which of the 3 hands he maybe should mis-play, etc, I can certainly also forgive him for not doing all that cards per round used stuff etc and spreading at all when playing solo since just playing 1 hand with a max bet would be the better thing to do to get more money on the table.
So big deal - a couple little mistakes on 1 round of Blackjack in an unfamiliar situation.
So, mistakes will happen. Prepare as best you can.
Sounds to me like you are completely prepared.
Keep a log.
Good luck.
I'm no pro so I don't fully understand the need to quickly recall BS for those 2 plays since the BS is the same. I'm usually just happy recalling the plays that are different
bjcount - I think this means pros have to learn comprehensive nd concise BS charts so they can alternate their BS plays between the two and get out of that "mechanical" rut.
I just pick one ahead of time and play to it. It seems so simple, it doesn't even seem like "i'm thinking on my feet" or anything.
But, yeah, I confess to applying the correct BS "mechanically" after that.
bjcount - I'm not sure but I think this means BJ pros have to walk faster to create less time when switching tables to be prepared for the next game.
Maybe it means pros have so much to think about switching from DD to a shoe game, they have to think about each thing really quickly. Either way, another reason I'm no pro. I just take as much as time I need until I am 100% certain I know what I'm doing.
But I think I did learn something. I just never knew the best way to escape heat was to go count another game as quickly as you can.
bjcount - this is way over my head. It must be a nightmare when you feel the need to misplay some hands and you just sit there for a while waiting for one of them to happen. Must be tough to know when to just switch to another game when feeling heat or just misplay the game you are in.
bjcount - just in case you haven't yet taken the time to memorize all those 6-digit decimals, I want to warn you that the difference between the 6-digit decimals is not shown. So you'd have to subtract them or something to know how much extra they will cost you. In case you ever want to consistently misplay a hand, might as well memorize the 6-decimal frequencies too.
Another word of warning the ev's that are there do not apply anyway for extreme True counts - they are BS ev's.
bjcount - don't panic. For mere mortals I think this means run your sim software anytime you want.
bjcount - this just goes to show how even 40-year BJ counters can occasionally come across a totally unfamiliar situation like playing solo and wanting to take advantage of a good count for the first time in his career. And can be forgiven for being forced, with but a few short seconds available, to quickly miscalculate and over-bet a 3-hand spread. The next time a high-count happens when playing solo, I'm sure he'll bet properly.
And with all that other stuff a pro has to think about, which of the 3 hands he maybe should mis-play, etc, I can certainly also forgive him for not doing all that cards per round used stuff etc and spreading at all when playing solo since just playing 1 hand with a max bet would be the better thing to do to get more money on the table.
So big deal - a couple little mistakes on 1 round of Blackjack in an unfamiliar situation.
So, mistakes will happen. Prepare as best you can.
Sounds to me like you are completely prepared.
Keep a log.
Good luck.
Kasi, thanks for your thoughts too and adding to the thread. One item though, I believe you are mistaken about the part I underlined above (or did I not understand your sarcasm?). When the count is high enough to spread to three hands:
1) 3 bets at 45% of your max puts more $ out then your single max bet.
2) It lowers your risk by spreading.
Of course if one believes in "the flow of the cards", then by all means do not spread out to 3 hands.
At those high counts it's likely that we would push on 20's anyway.
BJC
1) 3 bets at 45% of your max puts more $ out then your single max bet.
2) It lowers your risk by spreading.
Of course if one believes in "the flow of the cards", then by all means do not spread out to 3 hands.
At those high counts it's likely that we would push on 20's anyway.
BJC
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bjcount said:
Kasi, thanks for your thoughts too and adding to the thread. One item though, I believe you are mistaken about the part I underlined above (or did I not understand your sarcasm?). When the count is high enough to spread to three hands:
1) 3 bets at 45% of your max puts more $ out then your single max bet.
2) It lowers your risk by spreading.
Of course if one believes in "the flow of the cards", then by all means do not spread out to 3 hands.
At those high counts it's likely that we would push on 20's anyway.
BJC
1) 3 bets at 45% of your max puts more $ out then your single max bet.
2) It lowers your risk by spreading.
Of course if one believes in "the flow of the cards", then by all means do not spread out to 3 hands.
At those high counts it's likely that we would push on 20's anyway.
BJC
first off i'm not really sure what Flash means by playing solo. does he mean he's playing one on one with the dealer, or does he mean he's playing one on one with the dealer and has no team mates, or does he mean he's playing at a table with other players and he doesn't have team mates?
is he alone at a high limit table or alone at a low limit table?
if a high limit table and one on one i think he'd just wanna play one hand unless close to the cut card in a really high true count and he wants to force going past the cut card. or at a low limit table and his max bet exceeds the table max
eek and it's a really good count so he wants to bet more money maybe he goes to more hands.whew, what ever. i think for most of us, maybe whose max bet isn't gonna exceed the table limit it's best to play one hand when we are one on one and maybe we might play two hands if other players are present when you percieve an edge sort of thing.
its pages 204 thrue 211 Professional Blackjack by Wong.
lmao i can't even remmember it when i'm looking at the pages, much less bring it to mind when playing.:joker::whip:
bjcount said:
Kasi, thanks for your thoughts too and adding to the thread. One item though, I believe you are mistaken about the part I underlined above (or did I not understand your sarcasm?). When the count is high enough to spread to three hands:
1) 3 bets at 45% of your max puts more $ out then your single max bet.
2) It lowers your risk by spreading.
Of course if one believes in "the flow of the cards", then by all means do not spread out to 3 hands.
At those high counts it's likely that we would push on 20's anyway.
BJC
1) 3 bets at 45% of your max puts more $ out then your single max bet.
2) It lowers your risk by spreading.
Of course if one believes in "the flow of the cards", then by all means do not spread out to 3 hands.
At those high counts it's likely that we would push on 20's anyway.
BJC
So after 100 max bets, he would actually have had more money in play playing 1 hand with max bet than 2 or 3 since you'd only use 5.4 cards per round instaed of 8.1 or more when spreading. So you get to bet more money but fewer times kind of thing.
Don covers the principle of it on page 26 in the oft-mentioned by Flash Theory of BJ. I used to skip to the end of a novel too.
Not a big deal lol. After a 100 hours. Maybe don't do it for 40 years though.
In other words, for you, it just means be prepared before you play. As in run those sims so you have a plan when it happens.
You realize sometimes you may want to make a cover play - run a few sims, be it for a "misplay" or a "misbet". For whether you choose to do it sometimes or all the time.
Should you ever only have a few fleeting seconds to do something, just do what you are sure of. Or even, just don't do it.
All those sims and charts aren't just for before you play, they are also for measuring yourself (results) after you play.
So, if and when you do do the FLASH, maybe play SD, DD, and shoe, with a couple different counts, with a couple different counting systems, misplaying a few hands or more from time to time, while spreading to 3 hands with some bet when playing solo, maybe recalcing bet ramps for those games at the same time, just be able to come home that night and run your "expected vs actual" results.
casino experience
I would tell you to go out and play the game in the casino enviroment. Yes good games,good rules and good enviroment are all a plus. Casino experience is vital to survival in the counting world and you cannot get it talking about it. Play low stakes and relax and get your act together is the first order of business. You stand around backcounting decks and then act like a crackhead ready to rob a bank when you sit down your done. Good luck to you and hope all your hard work pays off. blackchipjim
I would tell you to go out and play the game in the casino enviroment. Yes good games,good rules and good enviroment are all a plus. Casino experience is vital to survival in the counting world and you cannot get it talking about it. Play low stakes and relax and get your act together is the first order of business. You stand around backcounting decks and then act like a crackhead ready to rob a bank when you sit down your done. Good luck to you and hope all your hard work pays off. blackchipjim
Sounds like you successfully put yourself through Blackjack Bootcamp. Now, it's time to actually play. Get used to playing for a while. Try to get some experience at the tables AND WIN SOME MONEY AT THE SAME TIME. Don't go over your head with betting but use all that training to make sure you're not "under-betting".
In time, you'll hodge podge many authors' works into your own style. Sometime during your first year, you might find yourself being backed off a table. You must become conscious of what the enemy IS thinking about your play. If you do find severe heat, try to re-think "your style of play" and what should be done to change it going forward.
While putting time in on the battlefield, always keep your eyes open! Eventually, you should be noticing a detail or two about AP in casinos that was never written about in any of your books. (If you can't keep your eyes open, you should go to sleep!) Also, while on this subject, there is something that your CV practice/training could not have taught you--DEALER MISTAKES. Again, keep your eyes open! Some dealers make more payout mistakes than others but ALL dealers will make one eventually. It's my estimate that two out of three dealer payout mistakes are in the House's favor. When they are in your favor, you must know how to quickly take down the chips without a "tell". And of course, you have to politely correct any mistake that's not in your favor. I estimate that I've personnally made over $1,000 per year just due to seeing dealer mistakes.
If you plan on playing much in AC, Vegas or Reno, you must learn about comp harvesting to at least a small degree. Meaning, you should learn how to at least score a free meal or two. If you're driving, you should be receiving free parking even in AC. If you're sleeping over, you should at least figure out how to get cheaper room rates than the local motel. While on the subject--KEEP YOUR BANKROLL SEPERATE! In case you ever want to review your historical records, don't let your blackjack wins and losses become contaminated by high-end expenses such as room and travel and food.
Basically, all I'm saying is that YOU JUST HAVE TO PLAY AND GET A LOT OF EXPERIENCE.
--Halves
In time, you'll hodge podge many authors' works into your own style. Sometime during your first year, you might find yourself being backed off a table. You must become conscious of what the enemy IS thinking about your play. If you do find severe heat, try to re-think "your style of play" and what should be done to change it going forward.
While putting time in on the battlefield, always keep your eyes open! Eventually, you should be noticing a detail or two about AP in casinos that was never written about in any of your books. (If you can't keep your eyes open, you should go to sleep!) Also, while on this subject, there is something that your CV practice/training could not have taught you--DEALER MISTAKES. Again, keep your eyes open! Some dealers make more payout mistakes than others but ALL dealers will make one eventually. It's my estimate that two out of three dealer payout mistakes are in the House's favor. When they are in your favor, you must know how to quickly take down the chips without a "tell". And of course, you have to politely correct any mistake that's not in your favor. I estimate that I've personnally made over $1,000 per year just due to seeing dealer mistakes.
If you plan on playing much in AC, Vegas or Reno, you must learn about comp harvesting to at least a small degree. Meaning, you should learn how to at least score a free meal or two. If you're driving, you should be receiving free parking even in AC. If you're sleeping over, you should at least figure out how to get cheaper room rates than the local motel. While on the subject--KEEP YOUR BANKROLL SEPERATE! In case you ever want to review your historical records, don't let your blackjack wins and losses become contaminated by high-end expenses such as room and travel and food.
Basically, all I'm saying is that YOU JUST HAVE TO PLAY AND GET A LOT OF EXPERIENCE.
--Halves
I've become reconciled to needing to carry a pocket note pad or something to record session results before I get back to my room and realize I've blurred the details; that's if I'm on a multiple venue trip. Locally, I only get in one or two sessions on an outing so it's not a problem. But I found recently in Vegas that being out for four hours and playing at four different stores can make it tricky to recall all the useful info accurately.
inside the mind of a bj pro - poetic license
m1,m2,m4,m7 sh!t!
wtf?
m5,m3, m6 "i wanna hit."
wtf? come on man make up your f***ing mind up!
m4, m3, m5...
ok, ok, deal the cards asshole.
oh f**k, m8, m10 christ sakes!
-10/5=-2 awe f**k this
"may i color up please, thank you ever so kindly."
.......
"mind if i jump in?"
6, 4, 4, 5, 6,
wtf is this a f**king tea party? deal the f**kin cards.
4, 2, 0,0,0,0,0, m1
oh f**k here we go again, m2,m4,m6 damm mother f**ker.
"split those please thank you, mam"
wtf another three? "yes, split again hun, thanks"
oh great a God dam 7 and i'm gonna double this mother f**ker in a negative count? "yes, one card please"
sh!t! "hit please"
m7, "Hit please" damm! m-f**kin8, m9
now watch this bitch get a five card 21.
i f**kin knew it. God, damm.
m!%#$/2 = time to get outa dodge.
"would you color me up hun, thanks so much"
m1,m2,m4,m7 sh!t!
wtf?
m5,m3, m6 "i wanna hit."
wtf? come on man make up your f***ing mind up!
m4, m3, m5...
ok, ok, deal the cards asshole.
oh f**k, m8, m10 christ sakes!
-10/5=-2 awe f**k this
"may i color up please, thank you ever so kindly."
.......
"mind if i jump in?"
6, 4, 4, 5, 6,
wtf is this a f**king tea party? deal the f**kin cards.
4, 2, 0,0,0,0,0, m1
oh f**k here we go again, m2,m4,m6 damm mother f**ker.
"split those please thank you, mam"
wtf another three? "yes, split again hun, thanks"
oh great a God dam 7 and i'm gonna double this mother f**ker in a negative count? "yes, one card please"
sh!t! "hit please"
m7, "Hit please" damm! m-f**kin8, m9
now watch this bitch get a five card 21.
i f**kin knew it. God, damm.
m!%#$/2 = time to get outa dodge.
"would you color me up hun, thanks so much"
sorry, i did hesitate to post that. one must find a way to deal with ones frustrations.
but, then i know how it can be in the mind of one recreational player when to ones mind the preponderance time (it's only about 70% of the time) it can be like the chinese water torture (wrongly named i believe). but you know where the drips of water at first not iniquitous, become ever more insistant, unpredictable seemingly never ending. and you know how it's all set up so as you can't escape that dripping, dripping, until that tiny drip is as if it's a banging and a crashing against your skull. and your mind can't escape it, sort of thing.
thats how it can seem in the mind of a counter for which those tens just keep 'dripping' out of the pack, seemingly endless but unpredictable splashing against the mind in a most insulting manner. ever drainiing ones bankroll and eating away at ones heart. lmao
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZ5B4f5JMB8 :yikes::whip:
but yeah when a 'pool' of aces & faces (don't forget 10's) comes out together or reasonably so, i guess a pro would be doing the ST thing.
but, then i know how it can be in the mind of one recreational player when to ones mind the preponderance time (it's only about 70% of the time) it can be like the chinese water torture (wrongly named i believe). but you know where the drips of water at first not iniquitous, become ever more insistant, unpredictable seemingly never ending. and you know how it's all set up so as you can't escape that dripping, dripping, until that tiny drip is as if it's a banging and a crashing against your skull. and your mind can't escape it, sort of thing.
thats how it can seem in the mind of a counter for which those tens just keep 'dripping' out of the pack, seemingly endless but unpredictable splashing against the mind in a most insulting manner. ever drainiing ones bankroll and eating away at ones heart. lmao
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZ5B4f5JMB8 :yikes::whip:
but yeah when a 'pool' of aces & faces (don't forget 10's) comes out together or reasonably so, i guess a pro would be doing the ST thing.
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6,6 vs 2
I encountered this recently and thought this was a perfect example to use to dig into the pro's mind. I use a lvl 2 count, RPC. The games 6d, DAS. 5 decks left in the shoe (1d played). TC was at +1 at start of hand and now dropped to +.5 when I had to play my hand. My bets at 2U and indices for this hand are:
12 vs 2 S>=3
6,6 vs 2 if no das P>=3
6,6 vs 2 das P>=-3
6,6 vs 2 RA das P>=-1
I weigh my options.
"Put the money out" when you have the opportunity, the thought of 2u on a single hand and the chances of possibly 8u or more on two doubled hands. 12 vs 2 is really not so bad for me, but having 4u's out on this hand if the splits do not improve may leave something to be desired.
I quickly put my thoughts together and decide to just hit, pulled another 6 for 18 and stand. Whether I won or lost is not the issue, my question is if too much thought went into playing this hand and not relying on the indices we put our trust into? How would you have played it?
BJC
I encountered this recently and thought this was a perfect example to use to dig into the pro's mind. I use a lvl 2 count, RPC. The games 6d, DAS. 5 decks left in the shoe (1d played). TC was at +1 at start of hand and now dropped to +.5 when I had to play my hand. My bets at 2U and indices for this hand are:
12 vs 2 S>=3
6,6 vs 2 if no das P>=3
6,6 vs 2 das P>=-3
6,6 vs 2 RA das P>=-1
I weigh my options.
"Put the money out" when you have the opportunity, the thought of 2u on a single hand and the chances of possibly 8u or more on two doubled hands. 12 vs 2 is really not so bad for me, but having 4u's out on this hand if the splits do not improve may leave something to be desired.
I quickly put my thoughts together and decide to just hit, pulled another 6 for 18 and stand. Whether I won or lost is not the issue, my question is if too much thought went into playing this hand and not relying on the indices we put our trust into? How would you have played it?
BJC
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