Is 8 decks worth playing at all ?

[ycming]

Just been reading the Bj attack book. And he mentioned the 8 deck is just not worth playing at all ...

My friend is currently playing in canada with 8decks- hole cards, spilt up to 4 hands, double after spilt, insurance offered but no respilt aces.

With a 1-8 spread a unit of $10, is that game worth spending time on it at all ?

could some shread some light on this?

Thanks
Ming

 

[Automatic Monkey]

Just been reading the Bj attack book. And he mentioned the 8 deck is just not worth playing at all ...

Absolutely not so.

My friend is currently playing in canada with 8decks- hole cards, spilt up to 4 hands, double after spilt, insurance offered but no respilt aces.

With a 1-8 spread a unit of $10, is that game worth spending time on it at all ?

Absolutely not so. Most of the games in Canada have very bad penetration, and that coupled with a 1-8 spread makes them a waste of time. The 8D shoes are the least of his problems. If he must play those games, he must backcount and/or use a very large spread (think 1-20) to make them worthwhile.

 

[Blue Efficacy]

I know I wouldn't attack 8 decks with counting alone.

 

[creeping panther]

8 deck

Absolutely not so.



Absolutely not so. Most of the games in Canada have very bad penetration, and that coupled with a 1-8 spread makes them a waste of time. The 8D shoes are the least of his problems. If he must play those games, he must backcount and/or use a very large spread (think 1-20) to make them worthwhile.

It's all in the spread man, all in the spread. 1-20, hell....1-40, that outa get it:laugh:

CP

 

[Thunder]

If I had to utilize a 1-20 spread to beat a game, I'd probably just fly to Vegas. That same 1-20 spread would be the equivalent to a 1-4 spread at a single deck game in Vegas and then you could use all the extra money that you know you don't need to have for your bankroll to play higher stakes, thus making more money.

 

[ycming]

thanks guys should of asked this well in advance! he just hit a 250 unit down swing that's 2500 CAD!!!

Ming

 

[FLASH1296]

Of importance here is the fact that the Canadian games are normally H17, that is, the dealer Hits his Soft 17.

Unless the casino is dealing 7 of 8 decks, that game is a waste of time and money.

I have never heard of a Canadian casino anywhere dealing better than 6 of 8 decks or 4 of 6 decks.

On the other hand, the 8 deck game, (at a casino like Foxwoods in Connecticut), is certainly quite playable, as many dealers cut off no more than 1.3 to 1.5 decks, AND the dealers STANDS on Soft 17 AND, Late Surrender is offered.

That game is a very reasonable profitable venture.

The Canadian game has a house advantage that is nearly D O U B L E that of the Connecticut game; even before we consider the crucial factor of penetration.

Note: Feel free to ponder the meaning of "double", as in " Hey Hazel, the interest rate on that credit card just doubled again, eh !"

In Blackjack the House Edge must overcome in order to generate an advantage.

Card Counting is a "Hard way to make an easy leaving."
Counting overcomes that House Advantage when it is reasonable,
like the game at Foxwoods, mentioned above.

That Foxwoods game is .36%

Most Canadian games are .66%

**************************************************

I'd rather have a bottle in front of me ... than a frontal lobotomy

 

[ycming]

Hmm actually is stand on soft 17 and pen is around 1-2 decks in the 8 decks game!

We normally play in the 6 deck uk games and i believe the HA is higher ? But yet we perform well on it with a 1-8 spread ....

Ming

 

[FLASH1296]

Where is the Canadian Game that you are referencing ?

 

[SystemsTrader]

Of importance here is the fact that the Canadian games are normally H17, that is, the dealer Hits his Soft 17.

Unless the casino is dealing 7 of 8 decks, that game is a waste of time and money.

I have never heard of a Canadian casino anywhere dealing better than 6 of 8 decks or 4 of 6 decks.

The Canadian game has a house advantage that is nearly D O U B L E that of the Connecticut game; even before we consider the crucial factor of penetration.

That Foxwoods game is .36%

Most Canadian games are .66%

**************************************************


[/COLOR][/I]

Flash there is a lot of incorrect information in this post. There are almost 100 casinos in Canada. There are 2,4,6, and 8 deck games. Some have games with penetration of 90%, some with brutal 65%. Some casinos are H17 many are S17. Some 8 deckers in Canada have a house edge as low as .36% and some have 6 deckers with .78%. While a lot of the casinos definitely are garbage there are some gems out there too. I don't know your source for information but its not exactly accurate.

 

[don]

All about the pen?

Pardon my noobishness, but what's the difference between cutting two decks off of 6-deck shoe vs. cutting two decks off of an 8-deck shoe? Isn't the advantage of a 6D vs. 8D shoe all about penetration?

 

[Tarzan]

Canada

I learned much of what I know about Canada from watching "South Park". As a matter of fact I have learned much of what I know about the outside world from watching this show. I was clueless about the whole "Goth" thing that these people are into... until I watched "South Park" that is!!!

Apparently Flash went to the WRONG casino(s)! Maybe the overall intelligence gathering that he does indicates poor games in general in Canada. Message him and tell him of these better quality casinos is all. Flash, as soon as he tells you where the GOOD Canadian casinos are (that are far enough south of the Arctic Circle) relay that on to me and we'll do a road trip! Load up the ol' dogsled team and LET'S GO! Yeeehawww....

I will avoid playing an 8 deck game. Most rational people do... if there is some sort of special circumstance as mentioned I would certainly at least THINK about playing against 8 decks.

 

[FLASH1296]

My source was the current edition of C.B.J.N.

 

[FLASH1296]

The "off the top" difference in expectation between the 6 and 8 deck game is only 0.03 %

But that is not the "whole story".

The greater the number of decks the more time you will spend facing a negative expectation.

If an 8 decker has noticeably better penetration and the rules are identical, the better-penetrated 8 decker is preferred.

Consider the case in with the Two Casinos in Northeast Connecticut.

Foxwoods Casino offers only 8 deck games at low stake.

Several miles away is Mohegan Sun, where ALL games are 6 deck.

The rules are essentially identical. The only difference being the almost meaningless prohibition against split Face Cards at M.S.

Foxwoods has much better penetration. It is the preferred choice.

 

[Grisly Dreams]

Pardon my noobishness, but what's the difference between cutting two decks off of 6-deck shoe vs. cutting two decks off of an 8-deck shoe?

If you cut 2 decks off a 6D shoe, you have lopped off 33% of the cards, wrecking the usefulness of the information derived by counting cards. If you cut 2 decks off an 8D shoe, you have lopped off 25%.

Both are pretty darned bad. The 75% pen on the 8D shoe is "better," I guess, but since the value of your count information is already so diluted when spread out over an 8D shoe, it's still not worth playing.

 

[kewljason]

If you cut 2 decks off a 6D shoe, you have lopped off 33% of the cards, wrecking the usefulness of the information derived by counting cards. If you cut 2 decks off an 8D shoe, you have lopped off 25%.

Both are pretty darned bad. The 75% pen on the 8D shoe is "better," I guess, but since the value of your count information is already so diluted when spread out over an 8D shoe, it's still not worth playing.

I believe you have guessed wrong, GD. When comparing 6 and 8 decks the percentage number is not what's important. The actual number of unseen cards are what is important. (assuming the games are identicle in rules) An 8 deck game with 2 decks cut, 75% pen, is not better than 6 deck, 2 cut of 66% pen. Both games are cutting 104 cards. Turns out they are very similar but the 6 deck game will be slightly better due to the slightly lower intial house edge, which mainly comes from slightly fewer hands played at negative counts. You can verify this will CVCX.

 

[SystemsTrader]

I learned much of what I know about Canada from watching "South Park". As a matter of fact I have learned much of what I know about the outside world from watching this show.

Then you will know that if you visit Canada to watch out for Scott. Scott's a dick.

 

[PrinceDragon]

Just been reading the Bj attack book. And he mentioned the 8 deck is just not worth playing at all ...

False statement. BJA is a good book,but far from "The Bible"

My friend is currently playing in canada with 8decks- hole cards, spilt up to 4 hands, double after spilt, insurance offered but no respilt aces.

With a 1-8 spread a unit of $10, is that game worth spending time on it at all ?

1-8 spread in 8D is ok if he's comp counting
I play a similar game,but with great pen,I use 1-16 spread and the SCORE is +50,not bad for a 8D game.

Conclusion:Every game is playable under the right circumstances

P.D.

 

[creeping panther]

Prince

False statement. BJA is a good book,but far from "The Bible"



1-8 spread in 8D is ok if he's comp counting
I play a similar game,but with great pen,I use 1-16 spread and the SCORE is +50,not bad for a 8D game.

Conclusion:Every game is playable under the right circumstances

P.D.

Well said.

CP

 

[Grisly Dreams]

"When comparing 6 and 8 decks the percentage number is not what's important. The actual number of unseen cards are what is important."

But when you're cutting, say, a deck off a double-deck, doesn't it have a more deleterious effect on the original EV for a double decker than cutting the same deck off a six-decker?