is anyone making money counting?
- Thread starter tony
- Start date
John Patrick?
Isn't he the guy who replaced Moulder on the X-Files? And, wasn't he the cop in Terminator II? And speaking of the X-Files, am I the only one "out there" that would just love to ride Gillian Anderson like a mechanical bull???
Why is that guy writing BJ books?
Why am I only asking questions?
Why did I go to Toonika about 3 weeks ago and win $1500. on SD?
Why did I go back about a week later and win $3,000. on DD?
AND THEN, why in the HELL, did I get Sh#t-faced, and give it all back in 30 minutes at the Craps Table?
Why?
phantom007?
Isn't he the guy who replaced Moulder on the X-Files? And, wasn't he the cop in Terminator II? And speaking of the X-Files, am I the only one "out there" that would just love to ride Gillian Anderson like a mechanical bull???
Why is that guy writing BJ books?
Why am I only asking questions?
Why did I go to Toonika about 3 weeks ago and win $1500. on SD?
Why did I go back about a week later and win $3,000. on DD?
AND THEN, why in the HELL, did I get Sh#t-faced, and give it all back in 30 minutes at the Craps Table?
Why?
phantom007?
John Patrick? A joke.
Yes, it is possible to make money counting cards. The hardest part is finding games that are good enough to play, some games are just so bad they should be avoided altogether. Somebody recommended books by John Patrick, I certainly hope that was a joke. That guy is an idiot and a moron. Not only does he have his own basic strategy which isn't based upon computer analysis, but upon his own "gut" instincts, he also recommends taking insurance when you have a blackjack. His books are basically trash.
Yes, it is possible to make money counting cards. The hardest part is finding games that are good enough to play, some games are just so bad they should be avoided altogether. Somebody recommended books by John Patrick, I certainly hope that was a joke. That guy is an idiot and a moron. Not only does he have his own basic strategy which isn't based upon computer analysis, but upon his own "gut" instincts, he also recommends taking insurance when you have a blackjack. His books are basically trash.
Re: John Patrick? A joke.
I agree that John's book is trash. But there are reasons behind why he wrote such a book. Many card counter knows BJ is a tough game. With conditions these days, 6-8 decks with less than 75% pen, some had to put on act or camouflage, the advantage is barely about 0.5% if any. For this kind of games, the long run is really ... long. Putting in about 150 hours, at local casino over week-ends and full table, you'll have to play something like 10 years to reach some kind of long run. You have been counting and playing for about 5 years and makes some money? that's still short run. you ain't see nothing yet.
I heard John Patrick was a proper counter before he wrote that book. He has probably gone thru this and realize that most people don't have that kind of 'Patience' to carry on. His book kind of suggest people playing with 'feeling' instead. He mentioned nothing about long run, which is key to all good BJ books. And of course, no one has come up with a theory that will work in short run.
I agree that John's book is trash. But there are reasons behind why he wrote such a book. Many card counter knows BJ is a tough game. With conditions these days, 6-8 decks with less than 75% pen, some had to put on act or camouflage, the advantage is barely about 0.5% if any. For this kind of games, the long run is really ... long. Putting in about 150 hours, at local casino over week-ends and full table, you'll have to play something like 10 years to reach some kind of long run. You have been counting and playing for about 5 years and makes some money? that's still short run. you ain't see nothing yet.
I heard John Patrick was a proper counter before he wrote that book. He has probably gone thru this and realize that most people don't have that kind of 'Patience' to carry on. His book kind of suggest people playing with 'feeling' instead. He mentioned nothing about long run, which is key to all good BJ books. And of course, no one has come up with a theory that will work in short run.
Re: John Patrick? A joke.
""I agree that John's book is trash.""
Okay point taken and I agree 100%
""But there are reasons behind why he wrote such a book.""
Because he is a casino shill and a degenerate gambler and finally figured out how to make money by selling the bullshite that he used to believe was true to the other suckers.
""Many card counter knows BJ is a tough game. With conditions these days, 6-8 decks with less than 75% pen, some had to put on act or camouflage, the advantage is barely about 0.5% if any. For this kind of games, the long run is really ... long. Putting in about 150 hours, at local casino over week-ends and full table, you'll have to play something like 10 years to reach some kind of long run. You have been counting and playing for about 5 years and makes some money? that's still short run. you ain't see nothing yet.""
Okay and your point???
""I heard John Patrick was a proper counter before he wrote that book.""
More sucker's mythology...but go on...
""He has probably gone thru this and realized that most people don't have that kind of 'Patience' to carry on. His book kind of suggest people playing with 'feeling' instead. He mentioned nothing about long run, which is key to all good BJ books. And of course, no one has come up with a theory that will work in short run.""
AAAAHHHH now your drifting off into voodoo/mythology land. With all do respect V-man but your totally wrong! Keep reading. There is a great list of Advantage play theory and how to books listed at this site. Check them out. John Patrick is full of shite!
""I agree that John's book is trash.""
Okay point taken and I agree 100%
""But there are reasons behind why he wrote such a book.""
Because he is a casino shill and a degenerate gambler and finally figured out how to make money by selling the bullshite that he used to believe was true to the other suckers.
""Many card counter knows BJ is a tough game. With conditions these days, 6-8 decks with less than 75% pen, some had to put on act or camouflage, the advantage is barely about 0.5% if any. For this kind of games, the long run is really ... long. Putting in about 150 hours, at local casino over week-ends and full table, you'll have to play something like 10 years to reach some kind of long run. You have been counting and playing for about 5 years and makes some money? that's still short run. you ain't see nothing yet.""
Okay and your point???
""I heard John Patrick was a proper counter before he wrote that book.""
More sucker's mythology...but go on...
""He has probably gone thru this and realized that most people don't have that kind of 'Patience' to carry on. His book kind of suggest people playing with 'feeling' instead. He mentioned nothing about long run, which is key to all good BJ books. And of course, no one has come up with a theory that will work in short run.""
AAAAHHHH now your drifting off into voodoo/mythology land. With all do respect V-man but your totally wrong! Keep reading. There is a great list of Advantage play theory and how to books listed at this site. Check them out. John Patrick is full of shite!
with due respect
Quoting from the previous post:
>AAAAHHHH now your drifting off into voodoo/mythology land.
I think V-man is right on. Let's look at the comments he wrote, sentence by sentence, that you think are "shite".
>>""He has probably gone thru this and realized that most people don't have that kind of 'Patience' to carry on.
OK, maybe Patrick never had a realization in his life more meaningful than it feeling good when he sticks his thumb up his as*, but he does know marketing, and quick/easy fixes are what people want.
>>His book kind of suggest people playing with 'feeling' instead.
This comment by V-man is 100% accurate.
>>He mentioned nothing about long run, which is key to all good BJ books.
This comment by V-man is 100% accurate. The thesis is that it's us "Math Boyz" who preach the unreachable long run, so essentially we are all in it for the short-run, hence that's the game we have to beat. This is total BS, of course. It's trying to climb Everest by looking for all the parts of the path that are downhill, and only climbing those.
>>And of course, no one has come up with a theory that will work in short run.""
I really don't know about this. What does it mean for a theory to work in the short run? Many people have short run wins. Or are you asking if there is a way to guarantee a win over an evenings' play? I know several ways of doing this (mostly not legal).
It is our conception of "long run", which is makes us think that 100 million hands is enough to be in the long run. Maybe the "short run" really is all any of us (humans/computers/universe) have, and essentially we want to know the odds we will get ahead after our little adventure into our particular "short run". After all, 100 million is no closer to infinity than 5.
--Mayor
Quoting from the previous post:
>AAAAHHHH now your drifting off into voodoo/mythology land.
I think V-man is right on. Let's look at the comments he wrote, sentence by sentence, that you think are "shite".
>>""He has probably gone thru this and realized that most people don't have that kind of 'Patience' to carry on.
OK, maybe Patrick never had a realization in his life more meaningful than it feeling good when he sticks his thumb up his as*, but he does know marketing, and quick/easy fixes are what people want.
>>His book kind of suggest people playing with 'feeling' instead.
This comment by V-man is 100% accurate.
>>He mentioned nothing about long run, which is key to all good BJ books.
This comment by V-man is 100% accurate. The thesis is that it's us "Math Boyz" who preach the unreachable long run, so essentially we are all in it for the short-run, hence that's the game we have to beat. This is total BS, of course. It's trying to climb Everest by looking for all the parts of the path that are downhill, and only climbing those.
>>And of course, no one has come up with a theory that will work in short run.""
I really don't know about this. What does it mean for a theory to work in the short run? Many people have short run wins. Or are you asking if there is a way to guarantee a win over an evenings' play? I know several ways of doing this (mostly not legal).
It is our conception of "long run", which is makes us think that 100 million hands is enough to be in the long run. Maybe the "short run" really is all any of us (humans/computers/universe) have, and essentially we want to know the odds we will get ahead after our little adventure into our particular "short run". After all, 100 million is no closer to infinity than 5.
--Mayor
Re: with due respect
""" >>""He has probably gone thru this and realized that most people don't have that kind of 'Patience' to carry on.
OK, maybe Patrick never had a realization in his life more meaningful than it feeling good when he sticks his thumb up his as*, but he does know marketing, and quick/easy fixes are what people want. """
Most people view gambling as a form of entertainment;to wit: they are fools.
Most degenerate gamblers are sick and have no patience to explore and learn.
We are talking about advantage play not gambling. leave for the JP web site.
"""">>His book kind of suggest people playing with 'feeling' instead.
This comment by V-man is 100% accurate. """"
I aggree 1000%. This is VOODOO!
""""">>He mentioned nothing about long run, which is key to all good BJ books.
This comment by V-man is 100% accurate. The thesis is that it's us "Math Boyz" who preach the unreachable long run, so essentially we are all in it for the short-run, hence that's the game we have to beat. This is total BS, of course. It's trying to climb Everest by looking for all the parts of the path that are downhill, and only climbing those.
>>And of course, no one has come up with a theory that will work in short run.""
I really don't know about this. What does it mean for a theory to work in the short run? Many people have short run wins. Or are you asking if there is a way to guarantee a win over an evenings' play? I know several ways of doing this (mostly not legal).
It is our conception of "long run", which is makes us think that 100 million hands is enough to be in the long run. Maybe the "short run" really is all any of us (humans/computers/universe) have, and essentially we want to know the odds we will get ahead after our little adventure into our particular "short run". After all, 100 million is no closer to infinity than 5.
--Mayor"""""
The long run and infinity. Indices were calculated as to give the best playing decision. The difference between the decision being correct or incorrect is microscopic but can lead to great losses. Mind boggling even for a math illiterate person as my self. Great thread V-man and you too Mayor. AP philosophy 101! LTC Hey Mayor lets go to Vegas and try and take the casino's money away!
""" >>""He has probably gone thru this and realized that most people don't have that kind of 'Patience' to carry on.
OK, maybe Patrick never had a realization in his life more meaningful than it feeling good when he sticks his thumb up his as*, but he does know marketing, and quick/easy fixes are what people want. """
Most people view gambling as a form of entertainment;to wit: they are fools.
Most degenerate gamblers are sick and have no patience to explore and learn.
We are talking about advantage play not gambling. leave for the JP web site.
"""">>His book kind of suggest people playing with 'feeling' instead.
This comment by V-man is 100% accurate. """"
I aggree 1000%. This is VOODOO!
""""">>He mentioned nothing about long run, which is key to all good BJ books.
This comment by V-man is 100% accurate. The thesis is that it's us "Math Boyz" who preach the unreachable long run, so essentially we are all in it for the short-run, hence that's the game we have to beat. This is total BS, of course. It's trying to climb Everest by looking for all the parts of the path that are downhill, and only climbing those.
>>And of course, no one has come up with a theory that will work in short run.""
I really don't know about this. What does it mean for a theory to work in the short run? Many people have short run wins. Or are you asking if there is a way to guarantee a win over an evenings' play? I know several ways of doing this (mostly not legal).
It is our conception of "long run", which is makes us think that 100 million hands is enough to be in the long run. Maybe the "short run" really is all any of us (humans/computers/universe) have, and essentially we want to know the odds we will get ahead after our little adventure into our particular "short run". After all, 100 million is no closer to infinity than 5.
--Mayor"""""
The long run and infinity. Indices were calculated as to give the best playing decision. The difference between the decision being correct or incorrect is microscopic but can lead to great losses. Mind boggling even for a math illiterate person as my self. Great thread V-man and you too Mayor. AP philosophy 101! LTC Hey Mayor lets go to Vegas and try and take the casino's money away!
Re: Long run starts with short run!
> His book kind of suggest people playing with 'feeling' instead. He mentioned
> nothing about long run, which is key to all good BJ books. And of course, no
> one has come up with a theory that will work in short run.
Let's get this over with already!
Basic strategy is not someone's opinion of how to play, it is the optimal way to play. All of the probabilities have been calculated and all of the payouts have been analyzed. If you are not playing accurate basic strategy, you are playing WRONG!
You may win a few hands by following your "feelings" instead of the strategy, but there is no way to be assuread that you will win. In fact, it is more likely that you will lose if you are not playing accurately. It's like playing darts with a blindfold. You may get incredibly lucky, but don't expect to get lucky very often.
Sure, we've all seen players doubling on hard twelve or splitting fives who keep winning hand after hand. They were lucky to hit the dartboard, but this is unlikely. Sure, betting against the odds will sometimes win, but if you are looking for a system that is more LIKELY to come out a winner why would you not play accurately?
A good system for the short run is the same system as for the long run.
-Sonny-
> His book kind of suggest people playing with 'feeling' instead. He mentioned
> nothing about long run, which is key to all good BJ books. And of course, no
> one has come up with a theory that will work in short run.
Let's get this over with already!
Basic strategy is not someone's opinion of how to play, it is the optimal way to play. All of the probabilities have been calculated and all of the payouts have been analyzed. If you are not playing accurate basic strategy, you are playing WRONG!
You may win a few hands by following your "feelings" instead of the strategy, but there is no way to be assuread that you will win. In fact, it is more likely that you will lose if you are not playing accurately. It's like playing darts with a blindfold. You may get incredibly lucky, but don't expect to get lucky very often.
Sure, we've all seen players doubling on hard twelve or splitting fives who keep winning hand after hand. They were lucky to hit the dartboard, but this is unlikely. Sure, betting against the odds will sometimes win, but if you are looking for a system that is more LIKELY to come out a winner why would you not play accurately?
A good system for the short run is the same system as for the long run.
-Sonny-
Re: You got it
>I might be able to manage a weekend frolic.
>
>--Mayor
Sounds great! I just finished some sims on my new "fool proof" method to win in the short run. I ran ten sims of twenty hands each and I ALWAYS WON! YOU TOO can also BE A WINNER EVERY TIME if you follow my SIMPLE FOOL-PROOF system. I will sell it to you for $40. ACT NOW and get a SPECIAL BONUS DISCOUNT! Just send me $20 for the system, then send me the other $20 out of your WINNINGS. This system is SO SIMPLE, you don't even have to know how to read to make it work! EVEN ILLITERATE PEOPLE can WIN BIG WHENEVER THEY WANT! Turn casinos into your own private ATM machines!
I have used this strategy "numerous" times in the casinos. Although I lost all of my money every time I used it, I will easily make all the money back by selling this system. I didn't say that it was fool-proof for the PLAYER, only fool-proof for the SELLER!
-Sonny Patrick-
>I might be able to manage a weekend frolic.
>
>--Mayor
Sounds great! I just finished some sims on my new "fool proof" method to win in the short run. I ran ten sims of twenty hands each and I ALWAYS WON! YOU TOO can also BE A WINNER EVERY TIME if you follow my SIMPLE FOOL-PROOF system. I will sell it to you for $40. ACT NOW and get a SPECIAL BONUS DISCOUNT! Just send me $20 for the system, then send me the other $20 out of your WINNINGS. This system is SO SIMPLE, you don't even have to know how to read to make it work! EVEN ILLITERATE PEOPLE can WIN BIG WHENEVER THEY WANT! Turn casinos into your own private ATM machines!
I have used this strategy "numerous" times in the casinos. Although I lost all of my money every time I used it, I will easily make all the money back by selling this system. I didn't say that it was fool-proof for the PLAYER, only fool-proof for the SELLER!
-Sonny Patrick-
Re: Long run starts with short run!
You said:
>A good system for the short run is the same system as for the long run.
All I can say is that you are not thinking "advantage play" in its full glory when you say something like this. There are plenty of ways of taking money out of a casino that CAN NOT be repeated for the long run. The objective is to take the money while it is there to be taken, and burn out the game. This is not always counting, it can be a 2-1 BJ promo, couponomy, or something else worth burning.
The burn-and-run strategy is entirely short-run, with each situation demanding an entirely new strategy.
--Mayor
You said:
>A good system for the short run is the same system as for the long run.
All I can say is that you are not thinking "advantage play" in its full glory when you say something like this. There are plenty of ways of taking money out of a casino that CAN NOT be repeated for the long run. The objective is to take the money while it is there to be taken, and burn out the game. This is not always counting, it can be a 2-1 BJ promo, couponomy, or something else worth burning.
The burn-and-run strategy is entirely short-run, with each situation demanding an entirely new strategy.
--Mayor
Ah, touche!
> The burn-and-run strategy is entirely short-run, with each situation
> demanding an entirely new strategy.
Excellent point. You were thinking a little beyond the scope of what I was trying to get across. I was focusing strictly on playing strategy alone.
What good is a 2-1 coupon or promotion if your playing strategy is so bad that you STILL don't have an edge? My point was that you have to have a solid base if you want to win. You can't rely on unlikely events to carry you through the short term. Vegas was built on people who just wanted to hit the big jackpot, no matter what the odds were. That is the reason we play blackjack and not slots.
There is a reason for certain bets being the "underdog". They are less likely to come true. Jonh Patrick's strategies are based on these "underdog hands" that many gamblers don't understand. He has removed the skill aspect of the game and left only the luck aspect. I would rather have both on my side. Even then, I would prefer skill over luck, since luck comes and goes. In the short run you may NEVER see ANY good luck. At least a solid strategy will reduce your losses.
> The burn-and-run strategy is entirely short-run, with each situation
> demanding an entirely new strategy.
Excellent point. You were thinking a little beyond the scope of what I was trying to get across. I was focusing strictly on playing strategy alone.
What good is a 2-1 coupon or promotion if your playing strategy is so bad that you STILL don't have an edge? My point was that you have to have a solid base if you want to win. You can't rely on unlikely events to carry you through the short term. Vegas was built on people who just wanted to hit the big jackpot, no matter what the odds were. That is the reason we play blackjack and not slots.
There is a reason for certain bets being the "underdog". They are less likely to come true. Jonh Patrick's strategies are based on these "underdog hands" that many gamblers don't understand. He has removed the skill aspect of the game and left only the luck aspect. I would rather have both on my side. Even then, I would prefer skill over luck, since luck comes and goes. In the short run you may NEVER see ANY good luck. At least a solid strategy will reduce your losses.