I just turned of age to gamble (in my area) about a week ago and have been interested since in playing blackjack not so much for fun (though I do enjoy it) as much as I would like to make some money. I've been reading extensively, and I very much like the "Blackjack Essays" that I found a link to on this site. I'm starting to understand basic strategy, and I also understand that even if you have a perfect knowledge of basic strategy you are still on the losing end of the stick! So it seems to me that the ONLY way to gain even a very slight advantage over the house is to count cards. I'm asking, is that 1% advantage worth my time? How long of daily practice would it take for me to generally feel comfortable at a table?
Is it worth it?
- Thread starter Rook
- Start date
One Week in Action
I think your off to a great start. I believe it is worth the necessary time spent learning how to count a system comfortable to you. BS will come with time. Counting will only come with motivation. When the time arrives (?) when you make your decision to pursue of forget the game a mistake can't be made. Just keep reading for the next three months.
I think your off to a great start. I believe it is worth the necessary time spent learning how to count a system comfortable to you. BS will come with time. Counting will only come with motivation. When the time arrives (?) when you make your decision to pursue of forget the game a mistake can't be made. Just keep reading for the next three months.
"Is it worth it? I just turned of age to gamble (in my area) about a week ago "
No, at your age it is not worth it. Do not waste your time with blackjack, go out and get all the young poontang you can find.
" I'm asking, is that 1% advantage worth my time? "
No, see above. But consider that the casino has about a 1% advantage on most of it's games, and notice all the nice stuff they can afford?
"How long of daily practice would it take for me to generally feel comfortable at a table?"
An hour or two a day practice at home for 2 or 3 months, and you should be good enough the casino will think about barring you so they can continue to afford all that nice stuff.
No, at your age it is not worth it. Do not waste your time with blackjack, go out and get all the young poontang you can find.
" I'm asking, is that 1% advantage worth my time? "
No, see above. But consider that the casino has about a 1% advantage on most of it's games, and notice all the nice stuff they can afford?
"How long of daily practice would it take for me to generally feel comfortable at a table?"
An hour or two a day practice at home for 2 or 3 months, and you should be good enough the casino will think about barring you so they can continue to afford all that nice stuff.
It Depends on YOU!
I'm new, too. Been studying BJ for 18 months now, and not set
foot in a casino yet. But I only study a few hours, 2 or 3 times
each week. I read constantly. It took 4 or 5 months to pick
the system that I feel comfortable with, and begin serious study.
I'm using the extended study/learning curve to add to my bankroll.
I chose to study a more complex count, rather than a quick, easy
count. Hopefully the small extra advantage will pay off in the long
run.
There are people here that learned Basic Strategy in a few days,
then practiced counting down decks using a simple count.
After that they learned a little about bankroll management and
betting, then they hit the casino after only a month or two.
It depends on you.
I'd suggest some books:
There is a very inspirational anecdote about Dr. and Mrs. J in
Carlson's "Blackjack for Blood".
Then you should read Snyder's "Blackbelt in Blackjack", or any
of several others including "Professional Blackjack" by Wong,
"Blackjack Bluebook II" by Renzey, "Blackjack Blueprint" by Blaine,
or "Million Dollar Blackjack" by Uston.
GL
BJinNJ
I'm new, too. Been studying BJ for 18 months now, and not set
foot in a casino yet. But I only study a few hours, 2 or 3 times
each week. I read constantly. It took 4 or 5 months to pick
the system that I feel comfortable with, and begin serious study.
I'm using the extended study/learning curve to add to my bankroll.
I chose to study a more complex count, rather than a quick, easy
count. Hopefully the small extra advantage will pay off in the long
run.
There are people here that learned Basic Strategy in a few days,
then practiced counting down decks using a simple count.
After that they learned a little about bankroll management and
betting, then they hit the casino after only a month or two.
It depends on you.
I'd suggest some books:
There is a very inspirational anecdote about Dr. and Mrs. J in
Carlson's "Blackjack for Blood".
Then you should read Snyder's "Blackbelt in Blackjack", or any
of several others including "Professional Blackjack" by Wong,
"Blackjack Bluebook II" by Renzey, "Blackjack Blueprint" by Blaine,
or "Million Dollar Blackjack" by Uston.
GL
BJinNJ
Besides the practice , it takes big bets which takes a big bankroll to make more than minimum wage for the time you play. Read up on bankroll and RoR (risk of ruin). You can look into "wonging" to minimize the variance and RoR.
Even if you have the $$, you must be able to psychologically handle huge losses when things don't go your way.
Even if you have the $$, you must be able to psychologically handle huge losses when things don't go your way.
If your goal is to MAKE MONEY:
In general, the answer is no, and here's some simple math: you earn $X per hour, or $X*2000 per year. You save up 3 months' salary, or $X*500, as a bankroll. You want 200 big bets to be safe, so that's $X*2.5 per big bet, and you use a 1:10 spread, or a unit bet of $X*0.25. You can generally expect to win 1 unit per hour, which means you're looking at blackjack as a "job" that pays 1/4 of what you earn at a "real" job.
It's possible that you inherit a bunch of money and play with 100 big bets instead of 200 and increase your win rate to 2 units/hr instead of 1 - in which case maybe you'd be able to make more money at blackjack than at another job. But for most people, and I believe that includes most people on this board, counting cards is a hobby, not a career.
If you want to make money from the casinos, become a dealer. Base pay is $20,000-$50,000, and you can double that with tips.
If you want to make money in general, put all the effort you would otherwise put into counting cards and simply kick some ass at whatever profession you're in. Become the best (fill in the blank) ever and aim for the merit-based pay raises, whether you're an artist or teacher or engineer or banker. Counting cards for a living is going to take at least as much work as changing brake pads for a living, and there's a lot more variance.
If your goal is to HAVE FUN:
Oh hell yes.
In general, the answer is no, and here's some simple math: you earn $X per hour, or $X*2000 per year. You save up 3 months' salary, or $X*500, as a bankroll. You want 200 big bets to be safe, so that's $X*2.5 per big bet, and you use a 1:10 spread, or a unit bet of $X*0.25. You can generally expect to win 1 unit per hour, which means you're looking at blackjack as a "job" that pays 1/4 of what you earn at a "real" job.
It's possible that you inherit a bunch of money and play with 100 big bets instead of 200 and increase your win rate to 2 units/hr instead of 1 - in which case maybe you'd be able to make more money at blackjack than at another job. But for most people, and I believe that includes most people on this board, counting cards is a hobby, not a career.
If you want to make money from the casinos, become a dealer. Base pay is $20,000-$50,000, and you can double that with tips.
If you want to make money in general, put all the effort you would otherwise put into counting cards and simply kick some ass at whatever profession you're in. Become the best (fill in the blank) ever and aim for the merit-based pay raises, whether you're an artist or teacher or engineer or banker. Counting cards for a living is going to take at least as much work as changing brake pads for a living, and there's a lot more variance.
If your goal is to HAVE FUN:
Oh hell yes.
I definitely agree with your "No" lol.
And I'm not disagreeing that everything you said could definitely be true. I just never understand where all these arbitrary big-bet units come from like it's some kind of absolute rule. Or where it's apparently assumed that one must have a huge $ roll to make money.
But the other side of the coin is one can bet the same roll with the same risk in the same game in so many different ways. Sometimes maybe you might make 1 unit/hr like you say with a 100 max-bet unit roll. Sometimes you could make 1/3 of a unit per hour with a 50 unit max bet roll. The catch is your unit size and spread has changed but you are making 3 times the $ per hour and perhaps more per hour than your day job.
Just a few thoughts for this guy to think about.
And I'm not disagreeing that everything you said could definitely be true. I just never understand where all these arbitrary big-bet units come from like it's some kind of absolute rule. Or where it's apparently assumed that one must have a huge $ roll to make money.
But the other side of the coin is one can bet the same roll with the same risk in the same game in so many different ways. Sometimes maybe you might make 1 unit/hr like you say with a 100 max-bet unit roll. Sometimes you could make 1/3 of a unit per hour with a 50 unit max bet roll. The catch is your unit size and spread has changed but you are making 3 times the $ per hour and perhaps more per hour than your day job.
Just a few thoughts for this guy to think about.
Heh thanks for the advice guys you've all been great. I didn't know you could make so much money as a dealer either, I wonder how the job interview goes for that, you show them basic strategy? I bet they would be very interested in you if you showed them you could count (though they probably wouldn't want you to come back to their casino IF they're not interested lol)
Yeah, you show them basic strategy and they tell you to hit the road. :laugh: Sometimes I wonder if casinos intentionally hire people who don't know BS. Maybe it's just a coincidence. In any case, the interview for a dealer position goes something like this:
1) Tell them which of your relatives or best friends works there. Without that you probably won't get the job.
2) Tell them which dealing school you went to and what games you can deal.
3) Show up for an audition. If you can deal the game(s) well enough, they'll add you to the list of people waiting to take that job.
4) Wait.
5) See #4.
-Sonny-
1) Tell them which of your relatives or best friends works there. Without that you probably won't get the job.
2) Tell them which dealing school you went to and what games you can deal.
3) Show up for an audition. If you can deal the game(s) well enough, they'll add you to the list of people waiting to take that job.
4) Wait.
5) See #4.
-Sonny-
No, you go to dealer school. Knowing basic strategy is not a requirement, which is why you should always take dealer advice with a grain of salt. Most of what they learn is game protection - how to watch for actual bona fide cheaters, how to spot marked cards, how to shuffle consistently, etc. I'd venture that the percentage of dealers who know how to count cards is not much different from the percentage of the general public who know how to count cards.
You list is slightly wrong. I corrected Step 5.
1) Tell them which of your relatives or best friends works there. Without that you probably won't get the job.
2) Tell them which dealing school you went to and what games you can deal.
3) Show up for an audition. If you can deal the game(s) well enough, they'll add you to the list of people waiting to take that job.
4) Wait.
5) See #1.
Strip dealers average around 70k per year (slightly higher at the high end joints, and maybe half that at the lower tier break-in joints).
Of course, Valet car parkers beat dealers in salary by 10k to 20k.
1) Tell them which of your relatives or best friends works there. Without that you probably won't get the job.
2) Tell them which dealing school you went to and what games you can deal.
3) Show up for an audition. If you can deal the game(s) well enough, they'll add you to the list of people waiting to take that job.
4) Wait.
5) See #1.
Strip dealers average around 70k per year (slightly higher at the high end joints, and maybe half that at the lower tier break-in joints).
Of course, Valet car parkers beat dealers in salary by 10k to 20k.