Is taking mispayoffs legal? Can they take mispayoffs back?

[camicio]

Is taking mispayoffs legal? I guess that I could say that I don't even know the game and that I'm trusting the dealer but maybe it's not so...
Does it change something if I have already contested some short payoffs?

Can they ask me to give a mispayoff back?
Do I have to even if they don't show me any proof?
If they are willing to show me some proofs but I don't have any money anymore, what can they do?

Will they pay me if I "split for less" and they don't notice before dealing me?
What if I double for less in a casino that doesn't have this rule and they don't notice?

Does it change something if I bet on purpose a high pile of chip with a lower denomination chip in the middle hoping that the dealer won't notice and pay me the whole pile in the high denomination chip?
All the previous answer apply even if they mispayoff is huge (a purple instead of anything else, for example)?

And, finally, is continuously trying to get a mispayoff going to raise a flag to check for card counting?

Thank you for the answers

 

[TENNBEAR]

[QUOTE=camicio;33899]Is taking mispayoffs legal? I guess that I could say that I don't even know the game and that I'm trusting the dealer but maybe it's not so...
Does it change something if I have already contested some short payoffs?

Can they ask me to give a mispayoff back?
Do I have to even if they don't show me any proof?
If they are willing to show me some proofs but I don't have any money anymore, what can they do?
Will they pay me if I "split for less" and they don't notice before dealing me?
What if I double for less in a casino that doesn't have this rule and they don't notice?

Does it change something if I bet on purpose a high pile of chip with a lower denomination chip in the middle hoping that the dealer won't notice and pay me the whole pile in the high denomination chip?
All the previous answer apply even if they mispayoff is huge (a purple instead of anything else, for example)?

And, finally, is continuously trying to get a mispayoff going to raise a flag to check for card counting?

Dealers are human are will make mistakes, some more than others. It is your responsibilty to count up your and the dealers totals and make sure you are paid correctly. Never assume the dealer is doing it correctly. Most of the dealers mistakes will favor the house; however, if it is a crime for keeping your mouth shut and taking the money when they pay your losing hand. Then you need to come get me and take me to jail, I am Guilty, and will remain on this continuing crime spree each time I step into a casino. I truly cannot believe that any player could be held responsible for the dealers mistakes.

 

[Kasi]

Can they ask me to give a mispayoff back?
Do I have to even if they don't show me any proof?

If they have overpaid you absolutely they can demand it back. Then or later.
If they refuse to look at tapes, etc your recourse, at least in Nevada is to go to the Commission.

I just read somewhere they asked a guy for $50 that they said they had overpaid him a half-hour before. They wouldn't pay and the casino wouldn't look at, or at least show him, any tapes. Or both. Security was called.

Eventually they paid the $50 (not much compared to what they were betting) and he and friend left premises never to come back.

So the casino got their $50 and lost 2 customers for life.

 

[Renzey]

Happened here Too!

At the same local casino which I joked about the female dealer having a very masculine name, there was a complaint filed and a newspaper article written about an incident that went pretty much like this about 8 years ago:

Floorperson approached a player from behind, much like when giving the "tap", and said they have it on tape that an hour earlier he was paid $75 on a losing hand. They demanded the $150 back and refused to show the player any such tapes. Security got involved, and at the risk of being inaccurate, I'm not sure about the final outcome.

 

[Automatic Monkey]

At the same local casino which I joked about the female dealer having a very masculine name, there was a complaint filed and a newspaper article written about an incident that went pretty much like this about 8 years ago:

Floorperson approached a player from behind, much like when giving the "tap", and said they have it on tape that an hour earlier he was paid $75 on a losing hand. They demanded the $150 back and refused to show the player any such tapes. Security got involved, and at the risk of being inaccurate, I'm not sure about the final outcome.

If I were in a situation where I was mispayed a lot of money and I knew they were going to take it back, I'd play it like a sticky bonus. Take it over and bet it all on one hand of craps. If I lose and they try to come collect it, my response is "Sorry, but I just lost it over at the craps table, so you got it back anyway." If I win- "Oh OK, sorry about that. Here it is."

 

[Kasi]

If I lose and they try to come collect it, my response is "Sorry, but I just lost it over at the craps table, so you got it back anyway." If I win- "Oh OK, sorry about that. Here it is."

I assume you're kidding lol.

I'd just leave the casino immediately and not come back for a while.

 

[p8ntballsk8r]

I got paid on a 5 unit bet when i knew the dealer had 21, i tried to get up and leave the table because the count had just taken a dive anyway, but the dealer caught his mistake and called me back... maybe I should have made a scene and said something about the casino being indian givers... especially because it was a reservation casino

 

[variancewillhit]

I have been paid twice in the past few months when I have pushed with the dealer. I play $100-1000 a hand, and was paid a few hundred on a push with the dealer. Both times I have let the dealer know as I am pretty sure it would be caught, and its not worth it for someones job. Not sure what would have happened if I wasn't paying attention and the cards were already gone.

 

[tribute]

In Louisiana two weeks ago, dealer tried to pay me on a push. The floorman was standing there. I corrected the dealer. She thanked me for being honest. I admit I have not always been so honest. A dealer once paid me incorrectly, three hands in a row. I was impressed with a casino in Vegas a few years back. I colored up, but left two red chips on the rail without realizing it. The next day a fellow player recognized me and said the pit was holding the chips for me. I went to the table and was able to get them. The casino environment may be hostile in some ways, but honesty on both sides, is the best policy.

 

[halcyon1234]

A quick address of one of your questions:

Intentionally stacking a low chip in amongst the high chips. First, that's why chips are of different colours, for all that's worth. =)

If you are doing it on purpose, with intent on deceiving, then yeah, they're not going to like it. It's on purpose, and you know full well what you're doing and what the results may be. If you take a payoff like that, then I wouldn't be surprised if you were banned or charged. Keep in mind how easily it can all go wrong. It only takes once for the casino to catch on. When you lose, and they collect the stack, the dealer will (should) see the stray chip in her tray. Or if she sees it while paying you (I've had dealers break down stacks into colors to see what's in there, and pay with a color up). If it's for any significant amount-- if they know you've done it once, they might think you've done it many times. Then the tapes get reviewed, etc, etc.

 

[EasyRhino]

Just earlier today, I got a mistaken payoff, $75, when it should have been a loss. I kept re-adding the hands over and over in my head making sure that I wasn't the one making the mistake, while chatting with the guy next to me about something else.

And running through my head was all the various considerations, "will the dealer catch the mistake?", "is the floorman around?", and the tough one "is taking this payoff morally acceptable?"

From a purely practical standpoint, I think if you think the dealer will catch it quickly, or if a floorman is around, it would be good to point out the error in a polite way, and establish the image as a straight-shooter.

But if you don't think it will be noticed, and pointing it out can't burnish your reputation? That's tough. I mean, in any other sort of personal or business transaction, I'd correct the error immediately. But when you're playing a game that's stacked ever so slightly against the players? The Robin Hood argument tends to kick in.

 

[WumpieJr]

I'd agree that when you enter the casino, you leave financial scruples at the door ^_^

They are in the business of taking people's money, and they are very clear (or at least they should be) on the risks involved. Also, since APs play with a positive expectation over the house, if we were really being fair, we'd tailor the betting system for zero profit and minimal variance