Isn't BJ crazy, but predictable

[Automatic Monkey]

Are you freaking kidding? What the hell makes you think the best a dealer gets showing a 9 or 10 is a 17?

Uhhh... because 16 plus 1 is 17?

That is, if he has to draw. If he doesn't have to draw it doesn't matter what the next card is. But an ace as a drawn third card can only hurt the dealer when he shows 9 or 10. We don't know what the fourth card is.

Giving a dealer an ace is just not the right move. Unless you know the holecard, an ace will give the dealer a chance to draw possibly more than once, which you don't want. Steering a 10 to the dealer is the right play in this situation. If the dealer needs to hit then its a gaurantee to bust with a dealer 10 showing, and the only card that can beat you with his 9 would be a 2. If there is no need for a dealer draw, then give yourself the 10 next round.

No I'm assuming you don't know the hole card and have no information other than that the next card is an ace. Tracking 10's is something different. But the same principle applies, when the dealer shows a 10.

 

[MAZ]

Uhhh... because 16 plus 1 is 17?

That is, if he has to draw. If he doesn't have to draw it doesn't matter what the next card is. But an ace as a drawn third card can only hurt the dealer when he shows 9 or 10. We don't know what the fourth card is.



No I'm assuming you don't know the hole card and have no information other than that the next card is an ace. Tracking 10's is something different. But the same principle applies, when the dealer shows a 10.

Alright maybe its me, but you're not making any sense. If the dealer is showing a 10, and say his down card is a 2, if you steer your ace as his draw card to me it only adds up to 13. So I don't get the logic of saying 17 is going to be his best hand. He has a chance at many different totals. If you knew the holecard its a whole different story, but in your example thats not the case. Besides when you're steering cards if you are steering to the dealer you want to have the best percentage of either 2 things happening. Busting him, or getting the card yourself the next round if the dealer doesn't use it. I wouldn't waste an ace on the chance it will just get lost in a 4 or 5 card hand. Steering aces to a 9 or 10 up is the flat out the wrong move.

 

[Automatic Monkey]

Alright maybe its me, but you're not making any sense. If the dealer is showing a 10, and say his down card is a 2, if you steer your ace as his draw card to me it only adds up to 13. So I don't get the logic of saying 17 is going to be his best hand. He has a chance at many different totals. If you knew the holecard its a whole different story, but in your example thats not the case. Besides when you're steering cards if you are steering to the dealer you want to have the best percentage of either 2 things happening. Busting him, or getting the card yourself the next round if the dealer doesn't use it. I wouldn't waste an ace on the chance it will just get lost in a 4 or 5 card hand. Steering aces to a 9 or 10 up is the flat out the wrong move.

OK, so would you rather the dealer have to draw that 4th card to a 12 or a 13? You have no idea what the card after the ace is, so you would prefer his stiff (if he has one) to be the worst stiff possible, which is why you want him to have an ace. If he has a 6 in the hole you're only going to give him a 17 and that usually doesn't help him being everyone else at the table has already drawn to 17.

We can't assume a heads-up game here, but even if we are, chances are the dealer will not have to draw on the next hand so the ace will then be your first card, and you will know it ahead of time. If the dealer has to draw he's going to take it anyway. Unless you have a double it doesn't do you nearly as much good to draw it as your 3rd card.

 

[MAZ]

OK, so would you rather the dealer have to draw that 4th card to a 12 or a 13? You have no idea what the card after the ace is, so you would prefer his stiff (if he has one) to be the worst stiff possible, which is why you want him to have an ace. If he has a 6 in the hole you're only going to give him a 17 and that usually doesn't help him being everyone else at the table has already drawn to 17.

We can't assume a heads-up game here, but even if we are, chances are the dealer will not have to draw on the next hand so the ace will then be your first card, and you will know it ahead of time. If the dealer has to draw he's going to take it anyway. Unless you have a double it doesn't do you nearly as much good to draw it as your 3rd card.

Now I know you're just a jammy boy and not a real player. You are assuming way too much about unknown cards to really be playing any kind of steering game. You DO NOT weaken an aces value by trying to create stiff hands or posssible multi card busts. The only cards a skilled player will try to steer to a dealer are 5 and 6 as a hole card, very difficult and I know you can't do that. Or as I explained earlier a 10 as a potential bust card. You are looking for a bust, not to draw out a hand. You either make it with the 1 card or you have not accomplished the highest percentage steer. Not to mention you will not be betting properly if you decide after the round is dealt to put the ace in a potential bust hand. No player capable of steering would ever waste an ace in the manner you describe. On top of that the only real way to steer cards is heads up or with a team. Any other way the variance will kill you. Keep trying son, if you keep guessing you're sure to get something right sooner or later.

 

[Automatic Monkey]

Now I know you're just a jammy boy and not a real player. You are assuming way too much about unknown cards to really be playing any kind of steering game. You DO NOT weaken an aces value by trying to create stiff hands or posssible multi card busts. The only cards a skilled player will try to steer to a dealer are 5 and 6 as a hole card, very difficult and I know you can't do that. Or as I explained earlier a 10 as a potential bust card. You are looking for a bust, not to draw out a hand. You either make it with the 1 card or you have not accomplished the highest percentage steer. Not to mention you will not be betting properly if you decide after the round is dealt to put the ace in a potential bust hand. No player capable of steering would ever waste an ace in the manner you describe. On top of that the only real way to steer cards is heads up or with a team. Any other way the variance will kill you. Keep trying son, if you keep guessing you're sure to get something right sooner or later.

Holy cow you are applying ploppy logic! You still can't understand why you would want to steer an ace to a dealer as his drawn card? There is no possible way that ace can be of value to you in any other way, in this particular situation when you are drawing and you know a keyed ace it will be the next card. At least F&P understands it, it's good to see some people come here to develop their blackjack skills instead of to insult other players.

 

[aslan]

Holy cow you are applying ploppy logic! You still can't understand why you would want to steer an ace to a dealer as his drawn card? There is no possible way that ace can be of value to you in any other way, in this particular situation when you are drawing and you know a keyed ace it will be the next card. At least F&P understands it, it's good to see some people come here to develop their blackjack skills instead of to insult other players.

What I hear you saying is that if you are third base and you know the next card is an Ace, if you let it go to the dealer who has a 9 or 10 up card, and he needs to draw, it will either give him a 17, or a worse stiff hand than he had in the beginning, or if his hole card is a 2, it will give him a stiff hand. If however he does not take it, it will be dealt to first base next round, which only helps you if you are playing heads up. I assume this comes up when you are only tracking aces. If you were tracking tens, you might do the same thing, but only against a 10 up card. Of course with tens you may not have any choice because the 10 would likely bust you so you couldn't steer it away from the dealer even if you wanted to. Does this make sense?

 

[Automatic Monkey]

What I hear you saying is that if you are third base and you know the next card is an Ace, if you let it go to the dealer who has a 9 or 10 up card, and he needs to draw, it will either give him a 17, or a worse stiff hand than he had in the beginning, or if his hole card is a 2, it will give him a stiff hand. If however he does not take it, it will be dealt to first base next round, which only helps you if you are playing heads up. I assume this comes up when you are only tracking aces. If you were tracking tens, you might do the same thing, but only against a 10 up card. Of course with tens you may not have any choice because the 10 would likely bust you so you couldn't steer it away from the dealer even if you wanted to. Does this make sense?

Yes exactly. Not that you'd very often get to use this play but if you are playing at 3rd base and sequencing cards, you probably have a partner at first base who probably has a lot more money down, and you're willing to sacrifice your hand to help bust the dealer. If you are playing heads-up you are at both third base and first base, and if you know the next card is an ace there is usually no benefit for you to draw it.

Still you ever know for sure the next card is an ace unless you see it. I'll be happy with being right 10% of the time.

 

[MAZ]

Holy cow you are applying ploppy logic! You still can't understand why you would want to steer an ace to a dealer as his drawn card? There is no possible way that ace can be of value to you in any other way, in this particular situation when you are drawing and you know a keyed ace it will be the next card. At least F&P understands it, it's good to see some people come here to develop their blackjack skills instead of to insult other players.

I will admit I was wrong about one thing, with all your guessing you still can't get it right. I gave you a little too much credit. Something for you, if you have to put the ace in the dealers hand, than you misplayed your hands leading up to the money round. Which by the way won't be the round you use the ace because of your bad play leading up to it you didn't get to put the money up for a potential dealer bust round. By the way, if you are steering with key cards you are not very bright, and since you are blind as a bat through your own admission, you shouldn't be steering cards anyway. I'm out for a while, feeding the trolls as they say, is getting tiresome.

 

[LiveBJ]

OK ,I make a big mistake that I post it in a board...

...To track this machine you must remember the key cards before the ace, because the cards are inserted from the end of the shoe to the front...

:cool2: :joker: :devil:

These machines - as far as i'm aware - do not use a riffle shuffle, so your cards remain in order in small packets.

What more do you need to know to find the answer for yourself? you should be able to form your own "revolutionary" conclusion with some time and practice.

That being the case, even with 3 key cards to predict the ace, it just doesn't give you enough forewarning that your aces is coming to really influence where it lands (well possibly if you were playing heads up....).Even if your team controlled the table...

RJT

Sure about that?

...this just doesn't seem feesable.

Not to be a dick, but it probably never will be to you (maybe even me), and I think thats the idea.

Have I said too much? Doubt it cuz I haven't really said a damn thing :grin:

 

[RJT]

Lol - I've got it from some very reliable sources that there are people out there working on beating CSMs - that's not really surprising - but the methods being discussed here ain't anything. And when one of these people eventually does find an exploitable weakness you can rest assured that no-one - including you - who posts here regularly will know anything about it until long after the party's over, although they'll be some that will claim that they knew about it all the long.
On an off topic - i'd really cool it with hacking and slashing at the people you want to help you - they're likely to tell you to stick yourself somewhere unpleasent if you keep up the way you're going. Just an passing thought from a casual observor.

RJT.

 

[Automatic Monkey]

...On an off topic - i'd really cool it with hacking and slashing at the people you want to help you - they're likely to tell you to stick yourself somewhere unpleasent...

Like where, in an $800 BJI seminar?

 

[zengrifter]

Now I know you're just a jammy boy and not a real player.

I never heard 'jammy boy' before - is that eubonics? zg

 

[RJT]

Like where, in an $800 BJI seminar?

Don't you have anything better to do? Or should that be a rhetorical question?
Your hard-on for BJI is old news - nobody cares anymore. The people who are going to take their seminar are going to take their seminar. No amount of badmouthing from you is going to change that. It's not something you find useful - great! Let's all give you a round of applause. Other people have used it and found it exceptionally helpful. Different people, different preferred learning methods and different ultimate goals.
God know why i'm even typing this, it such a washed out topic, but let's be honest you are not even talking from experience. You've never taken the seminar you are badmouthing, you've never met the people who's knowledge and skill you belittle so often. It's just poor form. When you have something new to say on the topic, i'm all ears, but until then can you please drop the blatant attempts’ to pick a fight?

RJT.

 

[zengrifter]

Don't you have anything better to do? Or should that be a rhetorical question?
Your hard-on for BJI is old news - nobody cares anymore. The people who are going to take their seminar are going to take their seminar. No amount of badmouthing from you is going to change that. It's not something you find useful - great! Let's all give you a round of applause. Other people have used it and found it exceptionally helpful. Different people, different preferred learning methods and different ultimate goals.
God know why i'm even typing this, it such a washed out topic, but let's be honest you are not even talking from experience. You've never taken the seminar you are badmouthing, you've never met the people who's knowledge and skill you belittle so often. It's just poor form. When you have something new to say on the topic, i'm all ears, but until then can you please drop the blatant attempts’ to pick a fight?

RJT.

Does BJI teach steering Aces to the dealer? zg

 

[RJT]

Does BJI teach steering Aces to the dealer? zg

:laugh: You really would have to ask them. I'd find out for you, but personally i'd be a little embarrassed to ask....
Perhaps you could ask AM to give you a course on this technique? :joker:

RJT.

 

[zengrifter]

:laugh: You really would have to ask them. I'd find out for you, but personally i'd be a little embarrassed to ask....
Perhaps you could ask AM to give you a course on this technique? :joker:

RJT.

Technique is not at issue here - what is at issue is whether steering the Ace to the dealer is advantageous, when, and by how much.

Therefore, the issue is whether AM's concept has statistical viability. Its the first I ever heard of it. zg

 

[RJT]

Technique is not at issue here - what is at issue is whether steering the Ace to the dealer is advantageous, when, and by how much.

Therefore, the issue is whether AM's concept has statistical viability. Its the first I ever heard of it. zg

Perhaps i'm closeminded on this issue, but i just don't see any viable advantage to it.
I believe that if you get the opportunity to talk to any pro AP's with experience of the location/steer games about this that you'd get laughed off at the suggestion. In fact i'd go a step further than this and say that i know that much.

RJT.

 

[EasyRhino]

Honestly, could steering an ace to a dealer possibly yield to an advantage. It seems to me like it would be a BAD idea under any situation, unless you were also holecarding and saw both of the dealer's cards.

But I don't know the math behind it.

 

[aslan]

Technique is not at issue here - what is at issue is whether steering the Ace to the dealer is advantageous, when, and by how much.

Therefore, the issue is whether AM's concept has statistical viability. Its the first I ever heard of it. zg

If a newbie can talk, it seems to me what AM is talking about is steering aces in general, and in the course of that activity there comes a time when the ace you are tracking comes up in a position that will hurt the dealer more than it will (or can) help the steerer or possibly his teammate, so rather than waste it, the steerer makes sure the dealer gets it to the dealer's disadvantage. It goes without saying that no one would waste the value of an ace by steering to the dealer unless it just happened to be the best course of action at the time; ie, the steerer or his teammate couldn't possibly reach it or if they could it would not help them. So whether steering an ace to the dealer represents a tiny advantage or a great one, it's academic if it just happens to be the best course of action at the time.

 

[zengrifter]

Honestly, could steering an ace to a dealer possibly yield to an advantage.

I don't know - but then I didn't know, untill the Semyon book,
that steering a ten to the dealer was a player advantage, either. zg