KISS III (BJ Bluebook) vs. KO

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jtleon

Member
#1
#1
i have no detail reading on KISS III yet....heard it is pretty simple
would like to know if someone had tried both KO and KISS III, and which is more effective?

i doubt if there is much difference in performance for both of this count system.
 
C

Cass

Well-Known Member
#2
#2
jtleon said:
i have no detail reading on KISS III yet....heard it is pretty simple
would like to know if someone had tried both KO and KISS III, and which is more effective?

i doubt if there is much difference in performance for both of this count system.
Click to expand...

They are both unbalanced counts. the difference is KIII counts only the black two's where as KO counts all of the twos. so your count will rise 1 point per deck with KIII and two points per deck with KO. The difference in there performance in miniscule. Just go with the one you like the best. KO is a lot more popular than KIII it seems like.
 
S

shadroch

Well-Known Member
#3
#3
I haven't mastered KISS 111 yet,so I use a kind of KISS 2.5.
I see very little difference between my Kiss 2.5 and KO,which I've used and still use.
But I'm far from an expert counter,still a stumbling beginner.
 
R

Renzey

Well-Known Member
#4
#4
Leon -- There is not much difference at all in the performances of KISS III vs. KO. B/J Bluebook II included a 6 deck simulation comparison between the stock KISS III and the Full Matrix KO. KISS had a 0.02% higher EV. KISS however is formatted with a positve IRC, Key count and Pivot. Also, further back in the refinements section of the book, instructions for the ardent user are provided on how to very simply "true fudge" your running count and index numbers for greater accuracy -- and also how to count all deuces as plus a half point rather than half the deuces as one point. Both refinements are performance enhancers that push the performance of KISS III just beyond that of Hi/Lo for the shoe game.

Cass -- Just one slight critique; With KISS III, your count will rise 2 points with each deck that's dealt and with KO, it will rise 4 points.

Shadroch -- Out of curiosity, I'm wondering what your card tags are for your KISS 2.5.
 
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shadroch

Well-Known Member
#5
#5
Mr Renzey- My "so-called Kiss 2.5 consist of counting the 7s and Aces,but not fully using all the indexes.I pretty much ignore anything that calls for a 22 or higher.Not that I disagree with them,just that I have not practiced enough that they flow smoothly. Yet.
 
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Renzey

Well-Known Member
#6
#6
Shad -- OK, good. Just so you're using the Insurance index play of "25" (shoe game) too. My sims have shown that using the full 21 index plays from pg 155 will increase EV by 0.06% over the 6 basic departures from pg 146 which all get tripped in at "20" along with Insurance at "25".
 
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rogue1

Well-Known Member
#7
#7
Kiss III

I use the Kiss III count and it gets the $$$. I only use the 16 vs 10, 15 vs 10, and Insurance indices. If you're a Basic Strategy player thinking about learning to count I seriously suggest you read Blackjack Bluebook II.
 
C

Cass

Well-Known Member
#8
#8
Renzey said:
Cass -- Just one slight critique; With KISS III, your count will rise 2 points with each deck that's dealt and with KO, it will rise 4 points.
Click to expand...

:rolleyes: yeah I knew that. :toast:
 
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