KO vs Hi Lo

[21forme]

I posted this in another thread, but it got buried too quickly, without a response.

Sooo, let's try again:

I started counting with KO and have been doing well with it. However, reading other threads, I wonder if I should switch to Hi Lo. The only deck estimation I've done is the first few decks, to wong out on negative counts. I don't seem to have a problem with it.

Where I play (AC - 6 deck), the tables that permit midshoe entry have machine shuffling at the end of the shoe. Hand shuffling is only done at tables where there is NMS.

So, the big question is would there be enough of an advantage to make it worthwhile to switch if shuffle tracking isn't in the cards? (pun intended)

 

[Bojack1]

I posted this in another thread, but it got buried too quickly, without a response.

Sooo, let's try again:

I started counting with KO and have been doing well with it. However, reading other threads, I wonder if I should switch to Hi Lo. The only deck estimation I've done is the first few decks, to wong out on negative counts. I don't seem to have a problem with it.

Where I play (AC - 6 deck), the tables that permit midshoe entry have machine shuffling at the end of the shoe. Hand shuffling is only done at tables where there is NMS.

So, the big question is would there be enough of an advantage to make it worthwhile to switch if shuffle tracking isn't in the cards? (pun intended)

Shuffletracking is an option in A.C. It sounds as if you play at the Borgata if you're playing 6 deck shoes with auto shufflers. I'm not sure if you are aware of it but there is a nice size pit of more than 20 tables that only do hand shuffling. Its located next to the Bread & Butter snackshop. During the week there maybe only 1/2 of the tables open as opposed to them all being open on the weekend, but it still gives you something to work with. Besides that there are many other casinos that have very trackable games if you are skilled enough. If you are not really interested in learning shuffletracking than KO is fine, especially if you are already comfortable with it. If you plan on trying some more advanced techniques it would be a good idea to start switching over to hi lo and getting accurate with your deck estimation down to the 1/4 deck.

 

[21forme]

Thanks for your input, Bojack. Yes, the Borgata is where I'm playing. I've never noticed the snack shop, but I believe I know what you're talking about.

As you walk in from the parking garage, up the retail hallway, and continue going straight, the first pit on the left is machine shuffled. Continue walking straight ahead (the high roller area up a few steps to the left, behind the tables) and this is the area to which you refer? If not, I'll have to do some sightseeing in there next trip and see what I'm missing...

I'd like to learn about shuffle tracking, and see if it's for me, but haven't had the time yet. I have Snyder's Blackbelt in Blackjack, so have the basics available. Is this something that can be learned from books and practice, or is it something that requires some hands-on teaching?

 

[supercoolmancool]

It's definately possible to learn by yourself, but the education won't be nearly as good as if you had a teacher. If you rely only on published information, you wont lean everything, but you are suppose to learn it on your own after a lot of playing.

 

[Claza]

I posted this in another thread, but it got buried too quickly, without a response.

Sooo, let's try again:

I started counting with KO and have been doing well with it. However, reading other threads, I wonder if I should switch to Hi Lo. The only deck estimation I've done is the first few decks, to wong out on negative counts. I don't seem to have a problem with it.

Where I play (AC - 6 deck), the tables that permit midshoe entry have machine shuffling at the end of the shoe. Hand shuffling is only done at tables where there is NMS.

So, the big question is would there be enough of an advantage to make it worthwhile to switch if shuffle tracking isn't in the cards? (pun intended)

I too started with KO, then switched to High-Low.

I really like the balanced count a lot better because it offers a less skewed picture of whether the count is high or low. Since there are more neutral cards involved, the running count is actually easier than with KO, in my honest opinion! And the division involved in True Count conversion is less overwhelming than people may think.

But I was having a problem in the beginning. With KO, 7s are positive cards while with High-Low 7s are neutral. There was a lot of self doubt, I would always doubt my accuracy not knowing for sure whether I counted all the 7s correctly.

If you've had a lot of success with KO, and you've got to the point where the count comes to you on a subconscious level, you may want to stick with it.

It takes a lot of practice for re-training your brain to instantly recognize the number 7 as a neutral card in High-Low. You will need to spend your energy thinking about it, your count accuracy will suffer, and you will have less confidence in your abilities.

 

[ChefJJ]

My standpoint is that if you use KO well, don't switch unless you plan on incorporating a lot more complex measures in your game. Additionally, you need to hone in on your deck approximation, because that can have a big impact on converting the RC to TC...plus you've gotta make that division on the fly before betting, making deviations, deciding to take insurance, etc.

With the conversion to TC built into KO, it really simplifies things. But that in itself may be a bit of a downfall, but I figure there is enough I need to keep track of while having fun. From my point of view, the unbalanced count helps to internally take care of those early swings in deck composition and gather information in the shoe games, which I am exposed to more often than not.

Don't just take my word for it though, I'm kind of a KO honk these days. It's working for me better than hi-lo just because I enjoy playing BJ...and enjoy winning as well. I'm not as serious as a lot of players around here.

Good luck