legends

[kewljason]

Last week I made a comment about how much I enjoyed reading the 'meet the guru of blackjack' interview with Stanford Wong in the 2011 edition of American Casino Guide. Being a somewhat younger guy, I personally enjoy reading about the earlier days of blackjack and especially the early years of some of the outstanding gentlemen that I have had the opportunity to learn from through their books and discussions on this and other BJ sites. After mentioning this, my friend, frequent BJ21 poster and occasional poster here, BJayCobbson directed me towards the e-book "Legends of Blackjack" by Kevin Blackwood. An outstanding read about the beginnings of some professionals and teams that some of us younger guys know of and/or may not be familiar with. I whole heartedly recommend it to some of the other younger fellows that I have met or communicated with recently like Dyepaintball12, SleightOfHand and BillytheBJkid. There is a lot to be learned from those that traveled this road before us.

 

[creeping panther]

Yes, it is a good read, and informative.

But we must remember the games these guys played were far, far better than the trash we face today. Keep that in mind if you are of the mood to emulate them.

CP

 

[mathman]

Yes, it is a good read, and informative.

But we must remember the games these guys played were far, far better than the trash we face today. Keep that in mind if you are of the mood to emulate them.

CP

That's for sure. Just in my 14 years we've seen H17, 6 to 5 on single deck, 4 to 6 to 8 decks and penetration nowhere as easy to find as it used to be. Those guys had much better games and way more single and double deck than we have today. Bums me out when I think about it....JtMM

 

[B Jack Trash]

My family crest...

Yes, it is a good read, and informative.

But we must remember the games these guys played were far, far better than the trash we face today. Keep that in mind if you are of the mood to emulate them.

CP

Hey! I resemble that remark!

 

[Dyepaintball12]

I will 100% be buying this! Thanks KJ!

 

[shadroch]

That's for sure. Just in my 14 years we've seen H17, 6 to 5 on single deck, 4 to 6 to 8 decks and penetration nowhere as easy to find as it used to be. Those guys had much better games and way more single and double deck than we have today. Bums me out when I think about it....JtMM

They also had to contend with backrooms, didn't have high speed computers to do sims with, didn't have the comp system we get to exploit and so on and so forth. When one door closes, another window is opened.
The three games I frequent the most have not changed one bit since my first trip to Vegas in 2001.
I take that back, they have actually improved as two of them didn't offer comps on table games back then and now I get a free meal almost every visit.

 

[creeping panther]

Comps

They also had to contend with backrooms, didn't have high speed computers to do sims with, didn't have the comp system we get to exploit and so on and so forth. When one door closes, another window is opened.
The three games I frequent the most have not changed one bit since my first trip to Vegas in 2001.
I take that back, they have actually improved as two of them didn't offer comps on table games back then and now I get a free meal almost every visit.

Comps are great if you are winning, very expensive if you are losing.

CP

 

[kewljason]

When one door closes, another window is opened.

Very good, Shad. I like that. :laugh:

 

[Lonesome Gambler]

It's been said before, but many pros consider today to be the Golden Age of advantage play. More casinos, more information, more networking = more opportunities. Single-deck counting may not be as profitable, but there is so much more out there.

 

[shadroch]

Comps are great if you are winning, very expensive if you are losing.

CP

I suppose you are entitled to your opinion, even if you are absolutely wrong.:cat:

 

[shadroch]

Very good, Shad. I like that. :laugh:

Alexander Bell is generally credited with saying this.

The full quote is paraphrased something like this - When one door closes, another window opens but we spend so much time staring regretfully at the closed door we often miss the new window of opportunity.

 

[creeping panther]

Comps

I suppose you are entitled to your opinion, even if you are absolutely wrong.:cat:

Explain Shad, how the comps you get from losing will make that losing positive.

Example,,,very realistic, I lose $2000 playing slots, so I get moved up to a higher level, say Diamond, I get 6 free rooms for a year worth $740, how is that better than winning $2000 and getting 6 free rooms worth $740?

CP

 

[shadroch]

Explain Shad, how the comps you get from losing will make that losing positive.

Example,,,very realistic, I lose $2000 playing slots, so I get moved up to a higher level, say Diamond, I get 6 free rooms for a year worth $740, how is that better than winning $2000 and getting 6 free rooms worth $740?

Howabout if you lose $1,000 but get 40 free rooms worth some $2,000, 40 free buffets worth some $800 and $3600 in free slotplay. Thats about what I got last year and my losses were a bit under $1,000.
So far this year, I'm at 30 free nights, about a dozen buffets, two great steakhouse dinners, a few shows and about $1,000 in free slot play. Am actually up a bit on slots thanks to two decent hits.
In the last six years, i've spent some 200 nites in Vegas, and just a bit less than that in AC, paying for exactly one room.

 

[creeping panther]

Comps

Explain Shad, how the comps you get from losing will make that losing positive.

Example,,,very realistic, I lose $2000 playing slots, so I get moved up to a higher level, say Diamond, I get 6 free rooms for a year worth $740, how is that better than winning $2000 and getting 6 free rooms worth $740?

Howabout if you lose $1,000 but get 40 free rooms worth some $2,000, 40 free buffets worth some $800 and $3600 in free slotplay. Thats about what I got last year and my losses were a bit under $1,000.
So far this year, I'm at 30 free nights, about a dozen buffets, two great steakhouse dinners, a few shows and about $1,000 in free slot play. Am actually up a bit on slots thanks to two decent hits.
In the last six years, i've spent some 200 nites in Vegas, and just a bit less than that in AC, paying for exactly one room.

Sounds way to good to be true.

CP

 

[shadroch]

The mind works much like a parachute. It's just extra weight until one chooses to open it.
A player who plays on a regular basis at any Harrahs will get marketing offers for X amount of free nites per month. I get three nites a month in Vegas, two nites a month in Laughlin and until recently would get 2-3 nites a month from each of the AC hotels. also would get $50 in free slot play twice a month from each of the AC hotels- thats $150 a trip, twice a month.
Mailings almost always include at least one free buffet, often two or sometimes they offer 5,000 Reward Credit instead. Thats $50 in comps.
Harrahs is far from alone in this. Four Queens gives almost as much as the entire Harrahs chains and the comps coming out of Laughlin make my head spin.
Those are just the marketing offers. While playing, it's fairly easy to ply some more from the pitboss's

 

[rrwoods]

Sounds way to good to be true.:rolleyes

I suppose sometimes even the best of us have a little to learn.

 

[shadroch]

I suppose sometimes even the best of us have a little to learn.

NOt CP. He knows it all. Just ask him.

 

[assume_R]

Howabout if you lose $1,000 but get 40 free rooms worth some $2,000, 40 free buffets worth some $800 and $3600 in free slotplay. Thats about what I got last year and my losses were a bit under $1,000.

Do you consider that +EV though? It seems more like you spend $1,000 on $3000 worth of high class food and board, so more like a good discount.

Yet maybe the free slot play can actually be +EV somewhat. Or if you think about it as you would have spent $3000 on the food and board regardless, you essentially saved $2,000 in opportunity cost.

I've only recently started to get comps of any significance, so I'm not too familiar on how others view it

 

[Machinist]

Lets see........a grand lost at machines is not really a thousand lost........you have to looka t only losing the HE...say 10% for a good round number...but at slots nowdays its more like 15%....anyway.....you lose a grand but in reality "the long run" you only have lost 10% or 100.00.....I'm just talking rough numbers here. Video pOker way less ..especially on the 50 and 100play.... The variance is much lower than single line..
So if shad gets 3600 in freeplay....that my friends is a hell of a deal....forget the rooms and comps.....they are nice ...
3600 in freeplay is where it is at....Take the freeplay and run i through the best vpoker or what ever game is available with the lowest HE and variance.....Video bj being my pick...even with out a 3:2 payout..
Bang the freeplay through and move on. to your next freeplay.,,,coupons or what ever you have.... Time is money in this type of "PLAY"
And Alias's and friends cards make this stuff even better!!!!
But a word to the wise............"It's work...its like a job after a few years of banging this stuff out..." Gets old like a job.....
An excellent addition for the retired types.....especially a husband wife team.....
Extreme organization skills are required if you really want to make some decent coin..
Plenty of books out there on this stuff....in fact i think there was post last week about such stuff???
Machinist

 

[KenSmith]

It's been said before, but many pros consider today to be the Golden Age of advantage play. More casinos, more information, more networking = more opportunities. Single-deck counting may not be as profitable, but there is so much more out there.

I agree. With casinos popping up everywhere, this is the Golden Age for anyone willing to travel.

Oh, back to the starting point of this thread and let me drop an affiliate link: (Dead link: http://store.eSellerate.net/a.asp?c=1_SKU15643927358_AFL3105276769&at=) _Legends of Blackjack_.