Low-limit heat?

[K Fjord]

Question from a newbie here.

I have only a handful of casinos in town. To date, I've been spreading $5-$25 (but I'll probably go $10-$50 soon), and--as far as I can tell--no one even knows that I've been there. Virtually every BJ book I've ever read has warned about the dangers of playing w/o camo of some sort. The advice I read said something to the effect of, "Don't play more than one session on the same shift in the same store within three months, and don't play a single session for more than 60-90 min, and don't be playing when a new shift takes over." I can't help but think that this was meant for black (or at least green) unit players; nonetheless, it's the advice I have followed. Unfortunately, this also means that my EV per year...is virtually nonexistent. Or, at least, I am adding more money (and more regularly) to my BR by saving from my day job than I am from actual play.

Needless to say, I don't think my bet range would make travelling somewhere distant into a +EV experience. (but I could be wrong) So, my question is: am I being too paranoid by following all this advice? Or can I get away with more?

Since it's probably important to know something about the level of heat these casinos offer, all the info I can give to that end (without specifically saying where I'm located) is that--in the past--I've gotten away with some ridiculous stuff. Before I got paranoid about cover, I had 8-hour (or longer!) sessions at every casino in town, some of them winning $500 or more, in spite of the fact that I fit the stereotype of an average counter: a pasty-looking college-aged white guy that doesn't drink and who probably keeps to himself more than the avg gambler. I've also seen a guy at the next table win an inordinate number of times for hours on end (with black action), the guy next to me tells the dealer, "You know he's counting cards. He's going to get kicked out, huh?" to which she just shakes her head as though she's never seen a back-off. (and the guy wound up cashing out several K ahead without any trouble)

Thanks in advance for any help/advice. I tried dropping by the chat room last night but it was virtually empty. I hope this is the right road to go to get answers to questions.




==========================================
"Obviously, you're not a golfer."
==========================================

 

[johndoe]

If you're playing shoe games, this kind of spread is barely break-even. You certainly don't want to make any cover plays that cost you money.

At these stakes, I doubt there are any casinos that would give you heat at all. Even the sweatiest places will likely ignore you.

 

[daddybo]

The heat you will get varies from casino to casino but is directly proportional to your bet size. Some sweat multi-quarters, most sweat black at some point, and about all will sweat purple and up. (if your winning)

 

[blackchipjim]

heat

I've had heat at low limit tables and couldn't believe it. It was a good barometer if I should go to a higher limit table. I thought if I spread my bets at a lower limit table I should be able to get away with it at a higher limit game. Pit critters hanging at a table watching your play is more of skills check to me than anything else.

 

[Lonesome Gambler]

I would be shocked if you ever got heat for a $5-25 spread. Like Johndoe said, that's barely breakeven on most games. You will get heat at low-limit games, but you really need to be playing a lot higher than that. I play without cover spreading many times that and have little trouble with heat. Longer sessions at local casinos will require less aggressive play and possible some cheap (read: "free") cover, but you shouldn't even consider that at this level.

 

[steve waugh]

Forget cover

At the betting limits $5-$25, you can forget cover. In fact, with a 1-5 spread, it is unlikely to be a winning game unless you are playing SD or well cut DD. My advice is , reevaluate your bankroll and consequently spread much higher (after practice ofcourse). With a max bet of under $100, there should be no worry about heat practically anywhere. You would have to play a game winning atleast $30-$40 an hour in EV at the very least to worry about "heat".

Even if you end up getting backed off at that level, you would know the threshold by which time you would have accumulated decent winnings to move to Green and beyond. That would save you time and fastrack your move to higher betting levels. Losing one store (unless it is MGM which has a lot of casinos all over) in the huge list of few hundred casinos is hardly anything to sweat. Leave the sweating to the PCS.

You have come to the right place and you will get plenty of excellent advice.

One point-WHile backoffs occur more often at high green to chunky black and purple, playing style matters and there are players who have survived heavy black for years!

Waugh

 

[K Fjord]

Since it's a question nearly everyone has brought up, I figured I'd mention that the game is 1D, H17, DA2, RSA, BJ = 3:2, no DAS, pen = Ro5/Ro6 depending on dealer. (I even saw Ro7 once, but she was half asleep and probably didn't realize what she was doing) With these rules, and the count and betting I use, CVData says I have about 1.3% IBA depending on exact placement of cut card and number of other folks at the table. Since my BR is replenishable from my day job, (about $100-$150 /wk) I'm really only too concerned with making it for the next trip until my next paycheck comes. If I calculate such trip ROR, it's well within my standard of what's acceptable even if I go $10-$50, which I am planning on doing.

Hence, my main concern: whether I can play for long enough to get my BR up to a level that would justify a bet big enough to justify traveling. At my current rate of one trip per 3mos, that would take...well, it feels like the rest of my natural life.

From the responses, it sounds like I should just use this as practice to get better at counting and to practice acting (though not playing) like a ploppy, in anticipation of the day when I have a BR that's large enough so as not to be so easily replenishable through my day job. And, in the meantime, take as many of the unnoticed red chips off their hands as I can carry out the door.

One more question: player's card. It would add a lot to my EV (esp. at the low level at which I play), but it does mean they can track every time I sit down. Also, I'd have to give them my DL. I'm thinking it would still probably be worth it, though, especially if I start going more often.

Also, thanks all for the responses. In any endeavor it helps to learn from those with more experience.



==========================================
"Obviously, you're not a golfer."
==========================================

 

[Sucker]

One more question: player's card. It would add a lot to my EV (esp. at the low level at which I play), but it does mean they can track every time I sit down. Also, I'd have to give them my DL. I'm thinking it would still probably be worth it, though, especially if I start going more often.

It looks WORSE if you DON'T get rated. Go to the players' club rather than the PC to get the card. If your casino doesn't have a players' club, get it from a slot attendant. I personally would never let any one from the pit see my drivers' license.

At the level at which you're playing, you could EASILY get away with rat-holing chips, if you're smart about it. When someone leaves the table, slip a couple of red chips into your pocket (without getting caught). If a $25 bettor leaves the table without coloring up, you might get away with doing a green chip. All you need to rat-hole is $50-$75 per day; they'll never notice this amount, and you'll end up looking like a big loser in the long run. Don't try to do much more than this, or they WILL start to notice chips gone out of the rack.

 

[assume_R]

Go to the players' club rather than the PC to get the card. If your casino doesn't have a players' club, get it from a slot attendant. I personally would never let any one from the pit see my drivers' license.

Why is this? Don't they have all your info anyway from when they input your player card info?

 

[Sucker]

Why is this? Don't they have all your info anyway from when they input your player card info?

Yes they do. The average person can probably just ignore that part of my post.

It's just a personal preference of mine. The last time I gave my I.D. to a pit boss, he kept it as a bargaining chip to get me into the back room. Turned out, he already knew who I was and he tricked me into giving it to him. Last time I'll make THAT mistake!

 

[Automatic Monkey]

Yes they do. The average person can probably just ignore that part of my post.

It's just a personal preference of mine. The last time I gave my I.D. to a pit boss, he kept it as a bargaining chip to get me into the back room. Turned out, he already knew who I was and he tricked me into giving it to him. Last time I'll make THAT mistake!

I would have taken my chances with calling the cops and swearing out a complaint of theft against the pit boss, because unless you were outright cheating what he did was more illegal than anything you were doing. Before they got there you would have had time to go to the rest room and flush anything that needed to be flushed first.

 

[21forme]

I was once at a car dealer, looking at a new car. Then he asked for my keys to give me a price on my old one. Things weren't going well and I asked for my keys back. It wasn't until I dialed 911 to report a theft that they gave them back.

 

[Sucker]

I would have taken my chances with calling the cops and swearing out a complaint of theft against the pit boss, because unless you were outright cheating what he did was more illegal than anything you were doing.

I was H'carding at the time, so I'd done nothing illegal. It was my passport - he actually committed a FEDERAL crime; theft of U.S. Government property. After I reminded him of that, he did give it back, and I hit the front door; with my pockets full of what was once THEIR money.