M.I.T. Team...Bane or Blessing?

[bj bob]

Having seen the episodes on TV and read quite a bit about the now famous MIT blackjack team. I am now at a point where I am reflecting on their long term legacy in the world of casino blackjack. At first I cheered their accomplishments, having taken it to the MAN. Estimates range from $3Mil to $12Mil from what I hear. That sounded great! I was truley inspired. But the more I encountered these awful casino counter measures and the anal attitude of the typical floor/pit management which came afterwards, the more I regretted their aftermath. Am I giving these guys too much credit for today's blackjack environment or would it have turned out this way without them? Sanguinely yours, BJ Bob

 

[TimeKeeper]

Well I know they were single-handedly responsible for Mohegan Sun in Connectictut to drastically change their blackjack rules. It says it right there in the book "Bringing Down The House." Blackjack is now practically unbeatable at MS. Why anyone bothers to play there, I don't know.

 

[KenSmith]

It's true that blackjack would be a lot different without the impact of well-organized teams. However, I think the development of teams was inevitable. Between the MIT team, the Greeks, the Czechs, and Hyland's team, there were a lot of people out there pulling money out of the casinos. And if you remove all those teams and the others I didn't mention or don't know about, someone else would have stepped up to the plate.

 

[Tootsie]

Moheg S

What are the rules & conditions at Moheg Sun for its BJ games to be unbeatable? Sorry to be curious since I've never played there.

 

[Bojack1]

Well I know they were single-handedly responsible for Mohegan Sun in Connectictut to drastically change their blackjack rules. It says it right there in the book "Bringing Down The House." Blackjack is now practically unbeatable at MS. Why anyone bothers to play there, I don't know.

I'm curious to know whats so unbeatable about Mohegan Sun. They offer 6 deck games, double any two, double after split, can split anything but aces as much as you want, aces can be split only once, late surrender, and it might take some scouting but you can find decent to good penetration if you are willing to really look for it. The only tables that have no mid shoe entry are the high rollers pits, all others you can wong in and out of to your hearts content. They also have some of the sloppiest and untrained dealers that I've ever seen, easy to take advantage of for some advanced techniques, and over payouts. My team has been feasting on this place this year to the tune of six figures. If you can't beat their games, or at least find a good one to play, than I don't believe you're trying too hard.

And as far as the MIT teams go, anybody thats been counting the last ten years, I'd be willing to bet its because of what the MIT teams accomplished that got you interested. Without them most counters today wouldn't be counters at all, they would be the same sucker ploppies wasting their money.

 

[I just like semi-circles]

I'm curious to know whats so unbeatable about Mohegan Sun. They offer 6 deck games, double any two, double after split, can split anything but aces as much as you want, aces can be split only once, late surrender, and it might take some scouting but you can find decent to good penetration if you are willing to really look for it. The only tables that have no mid shoe entry are the high rollers pits, all others you can wong in and out of to your hearts content. They also have some of the sloppiest and untrained dealers that I've ever seen, easy to take advantage of for some advanced techniques, and over payouts. My team has been feasting on this place this year to the tune of six figures. If you can't beat their games, or at least find a good one to play, than I don't believe you're trying too hard.



I'm glad you're having success at MS, but I have to agree with the other poster. All I saw at MS were dealers cutting off 2 1/2 to 3 decks, out of six. Unplayable. There was also mention of that in the blackjack forum monthly newsletter, saying MS is unplayable and Foxwoods was much better. Personally, I find consistantly better pen at Foxwoods. Got one (lazy) dealer the other night cutting off less than one deck in the 8 deck shoe. I find the comp points better at Foxwoods also. They're pretty tight at MS. To each his own. If you're beating them at MS, more power to you. Continued success to you.

 

[Bojack1]

I'm curious to know whats so unbeatable about Mohegan Sun. They offer 6 deck games, double any two, double after split, can split anything but aces as much as you want, aces can be split only once, late surrender, and it might take some scouting but you can find decent to good penetration if you are willing to really look for it. The only tables that have no mid shoe entry are the high rollers pits, all others you can wong in and out of to your hearts content. They also have some of the sloppiest and untrained dealers that I've ever seen, easy to take advantage of for some advanced techniques, and over payouts. My team has been feasting on this place this year to the tune of six figures. If you can't beat their games, or at least find a good one to play, than I don't believe you're trying too hard.



I'm glad you're having success at MS, but I have to agree with the other poster. All I saw at MS were dealers cutting off 2 1/2 to 3 decks, out of six. Unplayable. There was also mention of that in the blackjack forum monthly newsletter, saying MS is unplayable and Foxwoods was much better. Personally, I find consistantly better pen at Foxwoods. Got one (lazy) dealer the other night cutting off less than one deck in the 8 deck shoe. I find the comp points better at Foxwoods also. They're pretty tight at MS. To each his own. If you're beating them at MS, more power to you. Continued success to you.

Its funny I've heard a few people say that but I must say I've never seen a dealer cut 3 decks off a 6 deck shoe there. I have seen 2 1/2 cut off but I don't play them. Here's how misinformed I think this information is. We have a 5 person team generally using 4 spotters and 1 big player. None of our spotters are allowed to sit at a table that cuts off more than 1 1/2 decks on a 6 deck shoe. All of our spotters have been able to find tables at once. Its rare but I have seen only 1 deck cut off there also. I will admit there's more bad tables than good, but I could care less, we don't play them. And with a lot of their dealers being young and inexperienced its like taking candy from a baby, with there lazy sloppy shuffles and less than stellar math skills for odd amount blackjack payouts. As far as comps go we've played there 7 times this year, our big player has well over $5000 in comp points not to mention some serious perks. We have played Foxwoods 6 times this year with good results also, and it can be easier to find a good game their, but its no better than Mohegan once you find one. We travel alot, we play in about 7 to 8 different states a year, not to mention occasionally out of the country (although not as much now that its harder to transport the bankroll through airport security.) In about 24 different casinos we've found Mohegan one of the easiest to manipulate. So if the rumours of bad conditions persist, thats okay, that will keep all the hacks out of there and draw less attention our way. Good Luck to all and remember where there's a will there's a way.

 

[Preston]

Its funny I've heard a few people say that but I must say I've never seen a dealer cut 3 decks off a 6 deck shoe there. I have seen 2 1/2 cut off but I don't play them. Here's how misinformed I think this information is. We have a 5 person team generally using 4 spotters and 1 big player. None of our spotters are allowed to sit at a table that cuts off more than 1 1/2 decks on a 6 deck shoe. All of our spotters have been able to find tables at once. Its rare but I have seen only 1 deck cut off there also. I will admit there's more bad tables than good, but I could care less, we don't play them. And with a lot of their dealers being young and inexperienced its like taking candy from a baby, with there lazy sloppy shuffles and less than stellar math skills for odd amount blackjack payouts. As far as comps go we've played there 7 times this year, our big player has well over $5000 in comp points not to mention some serious perks. We have played Foxwoods 6 times this year with good results also, and it can be easier to find a good game their, but its no better than Mohegan once you find one. We travel alot, we play in about 7 to 8 different states a year, not to mention occasionally out of the country (although not as much now that its harder to transport the bankroll through airport security.) In about 24 different casinos we've found Mohegan one of the easiest to manipulate. So if the rumours of bad conditions persist, thats okay, that will keep all the hacks out of there and draw less attention our way. Good Luck to all and remember where there's a will there's a way.

Just curious..... but what are some of the other casinos that you've found good for picking?

I found the Meskwaki Indian Casino in Tama IA was really good. They had double deck/$10 a hand dealt face up. I took 'em for about $500 (red chip bettor here, small bankroll) 6 deck, had a new dealer on his first day didn't know anything. I got a half deck penetration and a few times I'd hit a 13 and get a 9 and yell you "YES! 21!" and he'd pay me out.

Also had another cocky dealer talking about how he can spot a card counter within 3 "shoes." I found that funny considering he was my dealer for about 4 hours and I got no heat. Why were we talking about card counting at the table? Some douchebag brought up the MIT team and then it went from there.

 

[supercoolmancool]

I got a half deck penetration and a few times I'd hit a 13 and get a 9 and yell you "YES! 21!" and he'd pay me out.

Oh my gosh! I can't believe that works. I got to try that too.

 

[Sonny]

God Bless the MIT Team!

Because of that little book, thousands of kids practiced Hi-Lo for about 2 hours then lost their shirts in Vegas the following weekend. Then even more kids bought the MIT DVDs and tried to learn ace sequencing and ace cutting only to lose twice as fast! Those poor jerks boosted the casino's bottom line and took the heat off of so many mid-stakes players. Everybody's happy!

The next time you're getting heat from a pit boss, tell them "I'm a card counter. I learned it from that MIT book on the flight here."

-Sonny-