Mandalay Bay Heat

SleightOfHand

Well-Known Member
#1
So this Thanksgiving weekend I made my first trip to Vegas. After 13.5 hours of play between Mandalay Bay, Tropicana, and Terrible's, I made about 33.5 units . I was just wondering about some heat I received at Mandalay Bay.

I am a red chip better, where I bet 5-2x50. However, due to the table conditions I never had a chance to spread to 2 hands this time. The story goes:

I came to Vegas at about 5 PM with my dad and 2 cousins (none who count but know of my counting). We got to the tables at Mandalay Bay at about 6:30 where we played for an hour before having dinner. Went back to the tables and played for probably 5 hours (I know this was pushing it on time, although I didn't notice any heat) (Side note: my betting ramp is >=1 1u, >1 2u, >3 5u, >7 10u using zen with S16F4 and 9 more indeces). Nothing special happened, count constantly hovered around 0 so I would just go to the bathroom and bet every few hands and wait till the end of the shoe at the last 2 decks or so. Ended up down a hundred or so. We then played poker and went to the Trop till 5 AM when they went to sleep. I came back to Mandalay Bay and my first table, I found a heads up table and placed my min. After the first 10 hands, the count skyrocketed and from then till the end of the (6D) shoe, I had my max bet out with noone ever joining the table. While I got 20's and BJ's, the dealer would get the small cards keeping the count high. And when I was dealt a 5/6, his little friend would come by and I would hit my double downs. I ended up 70 units at the end of the shoe. But it was only $350 so I figured I'll just leave the pit and go to another one. I found another heads up, but this time nothing special was happening. The count was where I placed 5 units when another fellow joined. He was a terrible player and whenever he made a bad play, I would make a grimace to appear angry about his bad plays. Perhaps 30 minutes passes when all of a sudden I hear the word counter. I look up and I notice a pit boss watching my game and another pit boss nearby. I thought I was trying to pay attention, but perhaps I wasn't aware enough. My bets weren't that crazy and I have never experienced heat before so I thought I would try and work this through for experience. I dropped down to my minimum and flat betted most of the time with raising my bet perhaps 3 times (the count called for it), although I made a few parlays at lower counts for a reason I thought may help. I went to stretch my back by rotating them and I noticed a man in a light colored suit standing a little distance away from me although it seemed that he was watching my game. A little bit later, they switched dealers on me from a slower lady to a lightning fast girl. I didn't have a problem keeping the count so I went on as normal. I made a playing error every now and then (stand on 14v10 and not surrendering). Then I noticed a little circle of pit bosses just kind of watching. At about 3/4 to the end of the shoe, I lost what I brought to the table, said thank you, and cashed out.

I was wondering if you can give any advice on mistakes that I may have overlooked or anything else that could help on my next trip. Thank you:grin:
 
#2
Hmmmm

I think the fact that you were wonging out and then coming right back to the same table was the attention getter. There are ways to do that and ways not too.

It was a slow time and they were not busy so they had to watch someone, why not you? These big houses have skilled Surveillance and Pit so just as I can spot a counter in a matter of minutes, I am sure they can too, especially when they are slow. I mean they were so s...l...o....w.... a group of them could stand around and watch you:laugh:

Maybe your demeanor also screamed...COUNTER:eek:

LV ain't so great my friend, not at all. :)

CP
 

FLASH1296

Well-Known Member
#3
You need to clean up your game.

Firstly, 20 - 1 is close to being too aggressive in an uncrowded casino, but the big tip off is that you bet minimally of the top. How long do you think any card counter would last betting $100 to $2,000 ? The over-under on that is about 55 minutes. Since you cannot haul much money out of there (betting up to $100) they let you play for hours, The next time that will be reduced to minutes. They simply do not want you occupying a seat that could be generating revenue for them.

Unsolicited Advice:

Bet 2 or 3 units off the top and continue with that as long as the count is between -1 and +1. WONG OUT if there is still 2 or more decks remaining at -2.

This spread strategy will cost you some in expectation, BUT, you will gain mightily in longevity

Your other mistake, and it is a major one, is spreading to TWO hands when your expectation is positive. Since the late 1990's every Pit Critter has known that they need to closely examine your game when you do that; and checking to see that you do that at only positive True Counts is very easily done. What you have accomplished is that you have made their job simpler. Do not shoot yourself in the foot!

IF you want to bet two spots, then you bet two spots off the top and stay there as long as you are still in the shoe. In most casinos, higher stakes "No Mid Shoe Entry" tables normally do not permit players to move to two hands once the first hand is dealt.

I also use ZEN and it is a good choice for shoe games.

Just do not make the error of thinking that because you are betting red you are safe from surveillance.

You aren't.

Stay away from that property now, as it is a near-certainty that the next time your player's card is swiped, red text indicating "evaluate carefully" are bound to appear. In all likelihood, you have earned the same distinction at all MGM stores.
 

ihate17

Well-Known Member
#4
additional point

I agree with the above suggestions and would add the following.

I also like playing in uncrowded casinos and often one on one with the dealer. In that situation you have keep your sessions shorter than you would in a crowded casino. On a busy weekend evening at a place like Mandalay Bay you could probably put in 5 hours at the same table and no casino staff would even know you are there, but when empty these guys need something to occupy themselves with and they easily found you. Keep your sessions short, even playing red chips when the casino is empty. By short I do not mean play a while in pit A and then move to pit B, it is still the same casino.

Hit the tram, go to the Trop and spend an hour or so there and then hit the MGM, Monte Carlo, NYNY etc, there is plenty of blackjack in the area.

ihate17
 

callipygian

Well-Known Member
#5
Has Vegas become so desperate that there are now $5 tables at the Mandalay Bay?

The last time I was there, I couldn't even find a $10 table at 9am on a non-holiday weekday.
 

moo321

Well-Known Member
#6
-Don't back yourself off. If you're gonna play blackjack, then play it and don't make any intentional mistakes. If you think they're on to you, just leave.

-No reason to get caught counting in Vegas. You have like a hundred casinos; if you ever get a hint of heat, move on.

-If you were a purple chipper, if might be worth it to make an occasional cheap mistake, but 14 v. 10 is not cheap, and you're not making enough money to give up any expectation.

-Oh, and you just posted your betting spread that you used in a specific casino, and relayed lots of details of an incident. If anyone from that casino comes on here, they could probably identify you from that information.
 

longwolf

Active Member
#7
You may have also made a mistake by looking up as soon as you heard the word Counter.
Any reaction to a term used by APs offers the pit critters a Tell.

Kinda like asking a dealer, who has an ace showing, if their down card is a ten could give you a tell on the Dealer:)
 
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ihate17

Well-Known Member
#8
Yes it has

callipygian said:
Has Vegas become so desperate that there are now $5 tables at the Mandalay Bay?

The last time I was there, I couldn't even find a $10 table at 9am on a non-holiday weekday.

You will also find $5 tables at very slow hours at the MGM Grand.

ihate17
 

callipygian

Well-Known Member
#9
ihate17 said:
You will also find $5 tables at very slow hours at the MGM Grand.
I'm less surprised at finding $5 tables at MGM Grand than Mandalay Bay. Mandalay Bay was $10 minimum minimums when most places were $5, and I've always considered it as part of the Wynn/Venetian/Bellagio/Caesars crowd.
 

EasyRhino

Well-Known Member
#10
Man, some pretty surious money gets thrown around at Mandy. I almost gotta think that the pit was hawking your game more out of boredom, than anything else.
 
#11
EasyRhino said:
Man, some pretty surious money gets thrown around at Mandy. I almost gotta think that the pit was hawking your game more out of boredom, than anything else.
It's a good game there too. Also one of the few places I've gotten in trouble with the pit not for AP but for rowdy behavior.
 

chichow

Well-Known Member
#13
I disagree with Flash. The OP said it was his first trip to Vegas. My guess is that he not a regular. So the loss in EV for your suggested gain in longevity...I don't think its worth it. Better to just move around

but thats just IMHO
 
#14
callipygian said:
Has Vegas become so desperate that there are now $5 tables at the Mandalay Bay?

The last time I was there, I couldn't even find a $10 table at 9am on a non-holiday weekday.
The true vneue ID was changed for the post, but it was one of those big ones with good games. zg
 

EyeHeartHalves

Well-Known Member
#15
I still love it when they bring in an ultra fast dealer as a "counter-measure" against a card counter. LOL--sometimes I'll follow her around the casino to the different blackjack tables until she goes on break or something. I fall in love with those dealers.

In fact, one of the most effective counter-measures that I've seen is a really, really sloooooooow dealer. But I'll usually stick around until the count gets negative because those dealers are usually the ones who make mistakes in your favor.

If and when the fast dealers make a mistake, it's usually in the casino's favor.
 
#17
moo321 said:
-Oh, and you just posted your betting spread that you used in a specific casino, and relayed lots of details of an incident. If anyone from that casino comes on here, they could probably identify you from that information.
Get real !:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:
 
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