Mentor Count
- Thread starter speedracer
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So if you were to memorize the absurd number of hi-lo indices given, and memorize only the mentor indices given in renzey's book, and then play with yoru respective count, the win rate of Hi-Lo would be similiar?
Seems to me memorizing absurd numbers of indices is easier than learning a level two count.
Seems to me memorizing absurd numbers of indices is easier than learning a level two count.
Mentor
I`m new here and in BJ but i run sims for mentor using 2DTC vs all canned sims using my configuration for the casino nearest my home, S17 DAS D only 9,10,11 and early surrender against 10 only , the bet strategy was the same for all( included in CVdata) ,usin backcounting at the pivot TC, and I fix the matrix for mentor following the Renzey`s book, my results show Mentor above all Level 2 ( RPC and Zen included but for a small %) , I myself use mentor with I18+ F4 + all the positives indices. Halves however it`s better but a level 3 it`s too much for me, at least for my first year.
I do not think cvdata cvcx it`s the right tool for the comparision , i do have SBA too but there is no support for 2DTC ,,,in the manual of SBA there is a way to do a comparision and the instructions about it.
PS only for curiosity i check for DD and SD and the results are different , mentor it`s better only for shoes, again for a small%
I`m new here and in BJ but i run sims for mentor using 2DTC vs all canned sims using my configuration for the casino nearest my home, S17 DAS D only 9,10,11 and early surrender against 10 only , the bet strategy was the same for all( included in CVdata) ,usin backcounting at the pivot TC, and I fix the matrix for mentor following the Renzey`s book, my results show Mentor above all Level 2 ( RPC and Zen included but for a small %) , I myself use mentor with I18+ F4 + all the positives indices. Halves however it`s better but a level 3 it`s too much for me, at least for my first year.
I do not think cvdata cvcx it`s the right tool for the comparision , i do have SBA too but there is no support for 2DTC ,,,in the manual of SBA there is a way to do a comparision and the instructions about it.
PS only for curiosity i check for DD and SD and the results are different , mentor it`s better only for shoes, again for a small%
Mentor
For my point of view about mentor :
it is new than zen and rpc , that is a problem because there is a lack of support in some software and books for example Don`s book BJ attack( qfit except) and there is little or no information about it ( Snyder web it`s full of information) except the book
2DTC its great for newbies but weird for veterans
I like the book and was my first book of BJ, so it is the system than i know better.
For my point of view about mentor :
it is new than zen and rpc , that is a problem because there is a lack of support in some software and books for example Don`s book BJ attack( qfit except) and there is little or no information about it ( Snyder web it`s full of information) except the book
2DTC its great for newbies but weird for veterans
I like the book and was my first book of BJ, so it is the system than i know better.
That's great that you can use a strategy as designed, keep up the good work!
I have found that canned sims are not good for comparisons and you can not use the same betting strategy for all playing strategies. It sounds like your using the generic betting provided with CVData which are not optimum spreads.
For example if when using Mentor you put out a max bet at +8, using Zen may be at +6, while RPC is at +5.
The optimum betting strategy takes these factors into consideration where the generic do not.
When you use backcount in cvdata, you first have to determine what TC integer to use for each playing strategy that equals a similar amount of skipped hands.
For example, using TC-1 as your departure point:
Using Mentor, if you WO at -1 you may be skipping 65% of all hands dealt
Using Zen, at the same WO, you may be skipping 57% of all hands dealt
Using RPC, you may be skipping 42%.
To use the backcounting feature for comparisons you have to take all things into consideration.
I am not familiar with SBA, but you can try this:
halve all the indices (can you use fractional indices?) and use 1dtc.
BJC
I have found that canned sims are not good for comparisons and you can not use the same betting strategy for all playing strategies. It sounds like your using the generic betting provided with CVData which are not optimum spreads.
For example if when using Mentor you put out a max bet at +8, using Zen may be at +6, while RPC is at +5.
The optimum betting strategy takes these factors into consideration where the generic do not.
When you use backcount in cvdata, you first have to determine what TC integer to use for each playing strategy that equals a similar amount of skipped hands.
For example, using TC-1 as your departure point:
Using Mentor, if you WO at -1 you may be skipping 65% of all hands dealt
Using Zen, at the same WO, you may be skipping 57% of all hands dealt
Using RPC, you may be skipping 42%.
To use the backcounting feature for comparisons you have to take all things into consideration.
I am not familiar with SBA, but you can try this:
halve all the indices (can you use fractional indices?) and use 1dtc.
BJC
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MEntor
There is something wrong with this I agree about Zen and RPC +6 and + 5 , but for mentor the book of Renzey say +10 , in my case with a casino advantage of 0,31 the pivot its +5 (book say +6 ) and for most cvcx results the max bet is at +15 to +17, far from +8, (play all and for backcounting)
Maybe you are not using 2DTC (this up a lot the TC ) i can send you the table for 2DTC .
There is something wrong with this I agree about Zen and RPC +6 and + 5 , but for mentor the book of Renzey say +10 , in my case with a casino advantage of 0,31 the pivot its +5 (book say +6 ) and for most cvcx results the max bet is at +15 to +17, far from +8, (play all and for backcounting)
Maybe you are not using 2DTC (this up a lot the TC ) i can send you the table for 2DTC .
It all depends. If you are playing shoe blackjack, using indices beyond the Illustrious 18 doesn't get you jack-diddly-squat. But the system tags of Mentor are very powerful and they will earn you more money than High-Low in any game. You can calculate and learn as many indices as you want for Mentor too.
When you get into pitch games playing indices become more significant and some players will use as many as 60.
When you get into pitch games playing indices become more significant and some players will use as many as 60.
It was just an example to make a point, which you may have missed. Using the same generic (those supplied with CVCX) betting strategy to compare playing strategies is incorrect.
Refering back to cvcx canned Mentor sims using full indices, s17, das, 4.5/6, ls, I stand corrected.
The max bet goes out at +12.
BJC
Refering back to cvcx canned Mentor sims using full indices, s17, das, 4.5/6, ls, I stand corrected.
The max bet goes out at +12.
BJC
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I stated that wrong, I didn't sim with different card tags, I converted the indices to count per deck and left the card tags alone. I should have said I converted the Mentor system "indices" to count per deck. I used a free index generator form Blackjack Forum online.. I think it is called Sam cases' free index generator. If you use it, you have to temporarily adjust the tags of the cards to normalize to the count per deck (temporarily divide the card tags by 2 when filling in the index generator because it wont allow you to adjust to count per 2 decks). After you have your count per deck adjusted indices, then go back to CVCX and sim the Mentor with the normal Mentor card tags and the Sam Case generated indices.
I do not have CVdata, which is why I used Sam Cases free generator. I'm sure CVdata is far more customizable than Sam Cases, but if all you need is indices, then Sam Cases works really well.
I do not have CVdata, which is why I used Sam Cases free generator. I'm sure CVdata is far more customizable than Sam Cases, but if all you need is indices, then Sam Cases works really well.
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Acknowledeged.. What I do know is that I used Sams a long while ago and i was able to generate indices that simmed very well in comparison to the canned CVCX sims that use the authors published indices.
If I remember correctly you can choose to truncate floor or round with sam's generator too, which will make a difference with some indexes. After i generated the indices from sams generator I would sim them with CVCX and tweak them according to how well they simmed. I guess if there are more free resources (i haven't looked in a while), that is good to know..
I know when I first used Sams i compared the results to published indices of a few counts, including the ones on CVCX, to see if it was accurate in comparison to the authors.
When I did this I wasn't aware of the free generator ZG is mentioning. If he says it is accurate then you can use that one instead or in addition to Sams.
If I remember correctly you can choose to truncate floor or round with sam's generator too, which will make a difference with some indexes. After i generated the indices from sams generator I would sim them with CVCX and tweak them according to how well they simmed. I guess if there are more free resources (i haven't looked in a while), that is good to know..
I know when I first used Sams i compared the results to published indices of a few counts, including the ones on CVCX, to see if it was accurate in comparison to the authors.
When I did this I wasn't aware of the free generator ZG is mentioning. If he says it is accurate then you can use that one instead or in addition to Sams.
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jack said:
Hi Xenophon, where ya been for the last year? Btw, I finally created my own count
I haven't been around for a while because I had been very busy working fulltime and going to school. I graduated last year and haven't played in a while.. Blackjack (counting) piqued my interest way back when I lived in MN and I started to play at reservation casinos when I turned 16.
Now I don't play very regularly but I still keep up with what is going on somewhat so that when I get back to MN (i live in cali now) or decide to take a trip to reno or vegas or something for blackjack, I can get back in the game with some good practice. Basically I have always been a recreational player, and I enjoyed studying the theory and history of counting.
So how has you count been treating you? What did you decide on?
Wow, you write very well for a teenager. Its good to see you back around. The last post, you made was "how to devise your own count" then I never seen you around anymore.
Well just for sport, I created this for MD 2223210-1-2-3(.994)
and this L3 for pitch 2233210-1-3(-3+)
I had alot of fun, watching CV create the indices for these counts.
Well just for sport, I created this for MD 2223210-1-2-3(.994)
and this L3 for pitch 2233210-1-3(-3+)
I had alot of fun, watching CV create the indices for these counts.
Thanks.. that reference to 16 was when my interest in counting started. Now I'm 34.. I had read about blackjack being one of the only games that could be beaten in the Casino, and I have never had any interest in sure losses (gambling). I read a few bad books on blackjack strategy, but on one of my first trips to a casino I was at one of those practice tables and I asked the dealer what card counting was all about. He referred me to "Playing Blackjack as a Buisiness," By Lawrence Revere, which is the first count I learned (since then I have gone back and forth between hi-low and the Revere Point Count)
When I was answering questions about creating counts with you a couple years ago I was looking into possibly switching counts using CVCX as a reference and practice tool. I also had "Smartcards" which is a utility that can be used to create counts and calculate PE/BE/IC, and practice counting.. So some of those answers were fresh in my mind because I was currently researching myself..
I wish I could play more often but I stay fairly busy with other things.. Next is graduate school so I will still play only recreationally when I have time and the opportunity arises. Eventually when i am well established and have time for the too many interests i have, I will play more often again..
Hopefully there will still be some playable games. It seems like there will be. As far as I know, my home state MN still has some very good games on the reservations.
When I was answering questions about creating counts with you a couple years ago I was looking into possibly switching counts using CVCX as a reference and practice tool. I also had "Smartcards" which is a utility that can be used to create counts and calculate PE/BE/IC, and practice counting.. So some of those answers were fresh in my mind because I was currently researching myself..
I wish I could play more often but I stay fairly busy with other things.. Next is graduate school so I will still play only recreationally when I have time and the opportunity arises. Eventually when i am well established and have time for the too many interests i have, I will play more often again..
Hopefully there will still be some playable games. It seems like there will be. As far as I know, my home state MN still has some very good games on the reservations.
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