Mindplay

#1
I was curious how to spot a mindplay machine. Whats the difference between an automatic shuffler and a mindplay machine, or is there one? im not sure what to determine from this post from BJ21.com .

"The easiest way to tell a MindPlay table is by the recessed "well" to the dealer's right. After shuffling or removing the cards from the shuffling machine, but before dealing, the dealer will insert the cards into this "well." Inside the "well" is a scanner that reads the marked cards, enabling the MindPlay device to know the exact order of the cards before they are dealt. A normal table does not have this recessed "well." In addition, you will see a black contraption that is used to hold the dealers first two cards. If you see such a table, do not play."
 
#3
lol...i feel stupid. guess i havent encountered one yet and was just being paranoid. Woukd it say it right on the top, or be visible to anyone at the table? And aside from it saying "mindplay" on it, does it look any different?
 

SecurityRisk

Well-Known Member
#4
It's my understanding, and someone correct me if I'm wrong, that a few Vegas casnios had Mindplay tables, but they are now all gone. It's my understnad that no Vegas casino has Mindplay anymore. I don't know about the rest of the world. I heard that Mindplay was a failure.
 

EasyRhino

Well-Known Member
#6
You can find one at El Dorado in Reno. I think it, and the LV Hilton, were the most prominent installations (no longer at Hilton, right?).

After the dealer shuffles, he "stacks" the cards into this slot-thingy that's recessed into the table like an angle, making sure the edge lines up with they fancy bits on the bottom. It's very similar to a dealer mashing cards up against the side of a shoe to line them up before a shuffle, but it actually reminds me the most of the public library, and the library running book spines against bar code reader when checking them out. I presume this is there the system "reads" the cards so it knows which is which. The dealer sometimes has to insert the cards multiple times before it works. After enough tries, he gives up and the floor gives him permission to deal anyway.

The other glaring thing is what happens when the dealer checks for blackjack. Instead of a mirror or red/green light, he inserts the card under a little LCD screen that he can read, almost like a credit card.

When I sat down at the table, I thought "This must be The Mindplay!" and left after about 30 minutes.

Smarter people than I have figured out countermeasures for it.
 

QFIT

Well-Known Member
#7
The Hollyw00d Casino in St. Martin is all MindPlay except for the VIP area. The dealers hate them and the PB called them 'frustration tables.' The game is very slow.
 

Cardcounter

Well-Known Member
#8
Play with Mindplay it won't hurt you.

Mindplay hurts the casino way more than it helps it and it lets card counters get away. When a Casino has Mindplay installed the pitboss do not watch you as closely as they other wise would. So all you have to do is out smart the machine. This can be done quit easily by playing two spots. When you switch spots especially when you are playing in the middle with other players the machine loses you and thinks you are another player. I work with mindplay and it is a pain in the ass. The irony is it cost way more than it saves by booting card counters.
 

Mimosine

Well-Known Member
#9
Cardcounter said:
Mindplay hurts the casino way more than it helps it and it lets card counters get away. When a Casino has Mindplay installed the pitboss do not watch you as closely as they other wise would. So all you have to do is out smart the machine. This can be done quit easily by playing two spots. When you switch spots especially when you are playing in the middle with other players the machine loses you and thinks you are another player. I work with mindplay and it is a pain in the ass. The irony is it cost way more than it saves by booting card counters.

what we love to hear! remind me if i have a good vegas trip to cut you a commission check for all the awesome insight and insider info you have provided us.
 

ihate17

Well-Known Member
#10
The purpose of Mindplay and none currently in Vegas

Mindplay was easily sold to a few casinos because Mindplay appeals to the two basic needs of a casino, greed and paranoia.
The purpose for inventing Mindplay according to the patent application is the reduction of pit and eye salaries and beneifits, the reduction of comps, a contro against cheats and the ability to evaluate play and catch cardcounters.
The reality of Mindplay is that it does not do what it was sold to do.
You can not expect game supervisors to be supportive of a machine in their pits designed to take their jobs. They will complain about it and in fact had good reason too. It slows the game and the biggest thing the casino execs did not think about, IT CHASES AWAY THE AVERAGE LOSER!
Sure the machine will only pay comps based upon the exact amount the player bets. So no comps for bathroom breaks etc. But what good is cutting comps when your players will not play and leave to go to other casinos.
The machine is capable of catching bet cappers but so is a dealer following procedure and how big of a problem is this anyway?
The machine is capable of counting losing and amatuer cardcounters but has proven to be very beatable by good counters and teams. Put it this way, it will result in the backoff of some guy who recently bought a book on cardcounting but would never catch the MIT team. Not a good investment.

So the result in Vegas was part of what has been termed casino suicide by the Hilton. The Hilton was a place with a good 6 deck shoe and probably the best double deck game in Nevada not long ago. The destruction of blackjack profits at the Hilton was not because some cardcounters feared Mindplay, the Hilton did not make money on them anyway. It was the average losing player. You know him, the guy worried about the flow, the guy with loads of superstitions at the table. These execs who purchased Mindplay were so distant from their own customer base that they actually thought that putting this strange all knowing table in their casino would not effect the number of players they had. It is history now, the players left for other casinos. Hilton rid themselves of the Mindplay devices and tried to lure their old, once loyal customers back. The problem was the Hilton is nothing special and when many of their customers got a taste of other places, they refused to return.
So not getting enough new customers to replace the old loyal ones, Hilton has followed the horrid example of downtown and began to ruin the rules on blackjack to the point where there is no real reason to go there anymore.

Mindplay can work in a areas where you have enough gamblers and an isolated casino. Where competition is heavy, expect it to fail because it is developed with no consideration for the most important factor in developing these things, the ploppy. If the ploppy will not play it, it will fail.

ihate17
 
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