My first Card Counting Trip

[snhu1634]

Hi all,

I'm a first time counter who has been practing counting and BS for a while now. I've always loved the game, but wasn't knowledgeable enough about BS and shouldn't have really been playing! I still love the game and hope card counting will allow me more opportunity to play more often.

I'm taking a trip to one of the big Connecticut casinos next week (by myself) and I'm wondering if it will even worth it for me to try to count with a bankroll of $1500? I'll be there early enough to catch some $10 minimum action but this won't last too long, and even at that amount, I wouldn't have nearly the amount of big bets I should (haven't really decided on my spread yet). So, my question is, is it worth it to even count the cards when it seems like my ROR would be huge? Appreciate any advice from people with more experience. Thanks!

I'm also wondering what kind of betting it takes to get decent comps at Foxwoods or Mohegan if anyone has any experience in Connecticut.

 

[aslan]

Hi all,

I'm a first time counter who has been practing counting and BS for a while now. I've always loved the game, but wasn't knowledgeable enough about BS and shouldn't have really been playing! I still love the game and hope card counting will allow me more opportunity to play more often.

I'm taking a trip to one of the big Connecticut casinos next week (by myself) and I'm wondering if it will even worth it for me to try to count with a bankroll of $1500? I'll be there early enough to catch some $10 minimum action but this won't last too long, and even at that amount, I wouldn't have nearly the amount of big bets I should (haven't really decided on my spread yet). So, my question is, is it worth it to even count the cards when it seems like my ROR would be huge? Appreciate any advice from people with more experience. Thanks!

I'm also wondering what kind of betting it takes to get decent comps at Foxwoods or Mohegan if anyone has any experience in Connecticut.

Have you ever counted in a real game, or just practice? The reason I ask is that you may have more than just insufficient bankroll going against you. It is risky enough using a short bankroll without the learning curve that many new players find themselves up against. If you bankroll is replenishible, and if the replenishible amount brings you to the requisite overall $10,000 amount (IMHO), which I recommend for a $10 min game, and if you will not be blown away by a loss of your session bankroll ($1,500), and if you are quite confident that you will have none of the usual first time jitters and mistakes of new counters, then by all means have a good time. This is kind of a back door way of saying, no you shouldn't play with a short bankroll, no you shouldn't allow yourself an RoR you are not comfortable with, and no you should not play your first, or one of your first, times without optimal conditions in so far as you are able to control them. You have picked a game (FW) that I have never heard raves about, and so far as I know, their games present a difficult challenge for even very experienced counters. Would you play if the pen was marginal? What rules are you willing to live with? As for spread, if you were to spread 10 times minimum bet, that would only give you 15 max bets. That is pretty thin IMO. I have never advised anyone to play basic strategy only, but in your case, if what you are primarily seeking is entertainment, I would do just that, plus take advantage of index information, for instance, when to take insurance, when to stand on 16 against a dealer ten, etc. If you are primarily interested in making money, be patient and save up a bankroll worthy of the time and energy you have invested in learning to count and play an advantage game. Don't sell yourself short.

Others may differ in my assessment. Don't take my word for it alone; listen to others. In the final analysis, you'll have to make up your own mind.

 

[golfnut101]

some thoughts

pm me I will share some experiences that might help...

 

[snhu1634]

Hmm I'm still not sure how to send a private message. What a novice I am.

 

[snhu1634]

Asian thanks for taking the time to reply, I appreciate the feedback. Basically, this trip is going to happen regardless because I want to get away, and I'll end up playing blackjack most of the time either way. That being said, I'm just trying to figure out the best way to play once I get there. Can't say I won't make mistakes and get overwhelmed at the actual table since I haven't counted at a live table yet, but I'm willing to and have taken the time to practice counting and BS. As far as losing the $1500, it's not my life saving or anything along that line but it would be slightly depressing, and $10000 isn't happening. It may take a while before I get back to continue to try to let the long-term math take over and give me the edge (which could take quite some time if im broke after 50 hands both times) So, maybe it's kind of a 50/50 thing where I can go for it and hope for the best knowing that I'm unprepared as far as my bankroll is concerned, or I can just stick to BS like any old Shmuck and not worry about losing my bankroll in one hour. Does it pretty much just come down to this decision? Either way, I will be sitting at the tables for a while.

 

[golfnut101]

what to do

click on my name in this thread
it will give you the option to send me a private message
give me your email address

 

[Nynefingers]

Hmm I'm still not sure how to send a private message. What a novice I am.

You can't PM until you've got some minimum number of posts.

 

[snhu1634]

You can't PM until you've got some minimum number of posts.

looks like I haven't hit that amount of posts just yet

 

[eldorado]

I think the size of bankroll is a little overrated. I've been playing for a couple months now a few times a week and have never lost $1500. I usually sit down at $5 tables with $200 and hardly ever lost that much. If im down after about 4-5 hours I usually leave. If your down $1000 or more at $10 tables making a max bet of $40-$50 assuming your at a SD or DD table their should be no reason to lost that much.

 

[aslan]

I think the size of bankroll is a little overrated. I've been playing for a couple months now a few times a week and have never lost $1500. I usually sit down at $5 tables with $200 and hardly ever lost that much. If im down after about 4-5 hours I usually leave. If your down $1000 or more at $10 tables making a max bet of $40-$50 assuming your at a SD or DD table their should be no reason to lost that much.

If they have $5 tables at FW, he would not be off the mark using $1,500 for a trip bankroll. But he did suggest that he would be playing $10 action, and I for one, would not be playing $10 games with a $1,500 trip bankroll. I would want $2,000 or $3,000 on the trip with the remainder adding up to $10,000 accessible.

His "must play" attitude suggests a bit of compulsive gambling in his makeup. Just because he will be near FW is no reason to play there unless he has identified rules and pen that are beatable at his level of play. Does he even know if the $10 games are dealt from a CSM?

Not to be a hypocrite, I have played with less than a recommended spread, but I realize it was wrong. It also belies a bit of compulsive gambling in myself, because it amounts to relying on luck. But when asked for advice, I cannot advise someone to do things I myself have done but realize were wrong. Good experiences had despite underfunded bankrolls and inadequate betting spreads do not nullify scientifically derived recommendations for play.

My best recommendation is that he does not play more than a $5 game this trip (if rules and pen are good and he has a $5.000 bankroll including what he does not bring on the trip) and that he spread at least 10 times for a shoe game. If he does play for more than $5, he should realize he is gambling, short and long run, and that he probably lacks the discipline for AP. At least that's the way I see it: others may differ.

 

[jopke]

The first time in a casino will be intimidating. I would recommend playing BS and just trying to keep up with the count. Wong out for negatives and if you've studied index plays, make them.

After a while you might feel more comfortable and can start using a conservative spread just to get a feel for it.

Bottom line, you need to look at this trip as primarily entertainment and secondarily a practice session in a live environment. If you win, great! If you lose, oh well...

If you decide you really want to have an edge, then you should back-count and only bet when the count is high. In that case you can size your bet with whatever you are comfortable with because you won't be betting when you don't have an edge.

 

[snhu1634]

If I don't end up counting, I won't play nearly as much and I won't expect to use it as a means to make money, as I think many gamblers do. I will probably just play a good amount for entertainment, using sound BS and take advantage of some of the other entertainment the casino has to offer. Sounds like maybe this is the way to go since my bankroll is just not there. I don't think they even have $5 tables, so 10 would be the minimun and even THAT wouldn't last as they raise the minumums as the night goes on. Maybe I'll give it a try for a little while and just see how it goes to at least get my feet wet. Maybe I'll count and use a very small spread so my ROR isn't so high. I know this is no way to make a lot of money, but it can't lower my chances as a player either, can it?

 

[snhu1634]

The first time in a casino will be intimidating. I would recommend playing BS and just trying to keep up with the count. Wong out for negatives and if you've studied index plays, make them.

After a while you might feel more comfortable and can start using a conservative spread just to get a feel for it.

Bottom line, you need to look at this trip as primarily entertainment and secondarily a practice session in a live environment. If you win, great! If you lose, oh well...

If you decide you really want to have an edge, then you should back-count and only bet when the count is high. In that case you can size your bet with whatever you are comfortable with because you won't be betting when you don't have an edge.

This recommendation makes a lot of sense to me and I think this is pretty much how I'll work it for my first trip. Thanks for all the input and I'll report on how it goes!

 

[aslan]

The first time in a casino will be intimidating. I would recommend playing BS and just trying to keep up with the count. Wong out for negatives and if you've studied index plays, make them.

After a while you might feel more comfortable and can start using a conservative spread just to get a feel for it.

Bottom line, you need to look at this trip as primarily entertainment and secondarily a practice session in a live environment. If you win, great! If you lose, oh well...

If you decide you really want to have an edge, then you should back-count and only bet when the count is high. In that case you can size your bet with whatever you are comfortable with because you won't be betting when you don't have an edge.

I was fortunate in my very first outing. I did not think I was ready, so I played poker instead, even though I had properly prepared by playing on a computerized setup to simulate real play. I lost at poker, so there I was, second day in Reno and a good part of my bankroll gone. What the heck! I jumped into a blackjack game, where I reasoned that if I did everything right, I would at least be guaranteed a small advantage. It was not near as daunting as I thought it might be. Fortunately I was not backed off for my ten times spreading and I recouped much of my losses.

I don't recommend trial by fire for everyone, but it worked for me. There is nothing like starting off doing things the right way, although I see a lot of common sense in gradually working one's way into it--first basic strategy and flat betting, then incorporating index play especially insurance at +3, then a moderate spread and finally full blown counting with wonging in wherever possible and wonging out for sure. In fact, if you can wong in, you have the best of chances of coming out victorious, and you only have to bet what you can afford since your min bet is zero (no spreading required)!

Good luck! Please let us know how you do. Looking forward to your trip report!

 

[chichow]

Have you ever counted in a real game, or just practice? The reason I ask is that you may have more than just insufficient bankroll going against you. It is risky enough using a short bankroll without the learning curve that many new players find themselves up against. If you bankroll is replenishible, and if the replenishible amount brings you to the requisite overall $10,000 amount (IMHO), which I recommend for a $10 min game, and if you will not be blown away by a loss of your session bankroll ($1,500), ....{edit} Don't take my word for it alone; listen to others. In the final analysis, you'll have to make up your own mind.

I'd be surprised...REALLY surprised on the number of posters on this site that put aside a 10k bankroll before stepping up to the $10 dollar table.

I'm not saying the numbers are wrong, I'm more commenting on human behavior.

Good luck to the OP.

 

[aslan]

I'd be surprised...REALLY surprised on the number of posters on this site that put aside a 10k bankroll before stepping up to the $10 dollar table.

I'm not saying the numbers are wrong, I'm more commenting on human behavior.

Good luck to the OP.

A $10K bankroll does not mean necessarily $10K already put aside, but it does mean ready access to the $10K if need be. Trip bankrolls cam be much less. But if you should have a $10K bankroll and all you have to your name for gambling purposes is $5K, I would not be playing $10 games if I were you. Pick a $5 game somewhere. Nothing is worse than losing ALL YOU HAVE for gambling purposes, for the simple reason that it puts you TOTALLY out of business. No more blackjack, nada, never again until you manage to save up another bankroll. Which would you rather have, the ability to continue to play indefinitely albeit at a low minimum of $5 or long blocks of time when you cannot play blackjack at all? Personally, I would rather always have the prospect of having an oar in the water than long dry spells. At heart I am not a gambler, even though occasionally when sleepy or under the influence I might do something stupid. Yes, I am human, but at heart I am an advantage player. I would rather be smart than lucky, but don't get me wrong...all good luck will be cheerfully accepted.