My first trip

[superman02]

I am going to Reno soon to count for my first time. I had a few questions to make sure I got everything right.

My friend and I are going as a team. We're going to play single deck with HiOpt1. We have a combined bankroll of $5000, so $2500 each. Our bet spread is 25,50,75,100. Does that sound right?

Also, how long should we play for at the same casino?

If we play between 5 and 8 hours over 2 days, how likely is it to see good profits? Reading some posts about how often people have lost money seems really discouraging.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Sonny]

We have a combined bankroll of $5000, so $2500 each. Our bet spread is 25,50,75,100. Does that sound right?

That depends on how long you expect that bankroll to last. If it is just for that weekend trip then you are fine. If you are hoping to use that bankroll (without adding to it from other sources) for a long time then you are seriously overbetting. A spread of $5-$25 would be more appropriate for a lifetime bankroll.

Also, how long should we play for at the same casino?

Between thirty minutes and an hour is very safe. You can play longer but you might start getting some heat. Pay close attention and play it by ear. Reno can be pretty sweaty for a new player but don't let that stop you from playing aggressively. Just know when it's time to leave.

If we play between 5 and 8 hours over 2 days, how likely is it to see good profits?

If you both play 8 hour for a total of 16 hours then you probably have about a 60% chance of winning money. Here’s a link that gives more detail:

http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/showthread.php?t=4891

-Sonny-

 

[rollem411]

For a trip BR that is pretty good. If that is your entire BR and not just a portion of it than I believe it is too small. Anyone in agreement??

As for how long you should play in the casino is dependent on whether you plan on being a regular or not. If you want to keep going back to this particular casino, make sure you leave when you start feeling the heat, otherwise it doesn't really matter.

And the most important answer to your question of profits...You will find out. You can't predict over a weekends play whether or not you will be up or down. Also, if it were that easy, everyone would do it. The biggest reason people fail as a counter is psychology of losing.

 

[caliplaya209]

I am the friend that he is going with. Would you guys recommend the hi opt 1 for single deck? What are some casinos recommended in Reno? I hear boomtown and Siena are good, i searched it on here. Any other places?

 

[bj bob]

I am going to Reno soon to count for my first time. I had a few questions to make sure I got everything right.

My friend and I are going as a team. We're going to play single deck with HiOpt1. We have a combined bankroll of $5000, so $2500 each. Our bet spread is 25,50,75,100. Does that sound right?

Also, how long should we play for at the same casino?

If we play between 5 and 8 hours over 2 days, how likely is it to see good profits? Reading some posts about how often people have lost money seems really discouraging.

Thanks in advance.

First time counting and a team to boot? Not a very good mix. I would definitely suggest you get your feet wet without the added distractions of teamwork. Single deck team play is a different animal than with shoes. One of the key differences is the importance of RoX, that is the #rounds/ shuffle. There's a lot more, buts that's just for starters. You had better have at least 30 indeces under your belt as well. Trying to pull off any team at the Siena is not for rookies. Believe me. Also, when playing there make sure your first 15 mins. are playing BS only, then switch to counting. Don't go over a 1:3 spread and get the hell out of there before the hour is up. You'll get a lot more slack from Didi (Injun pit boss, nice as hell, but smart as well) but don't push it.
There's a whole lot more to the Reno thing, but the point is you need some SD counting experience and get some quality hours to hone your skills before attempting any team adventures.

 

[Knox]

I am going to Reno soon to count for my first time. I had a few questions to make sure I got everything right.

My friend and I are going as a team. We're going to play single deck with HiOpt1. We have a combined bankroll of $5000, so $2500 each. Our bet spread is 25,50,75,100. Does that sound right?

Also, how long should we play for at the same casino?

If we play between 5 and 8 hours over 2 days, how likely is it to see good profits? Reading some posts about how often people have lost money seems really discouraging.

Thanks in advance.

The 1-4 spread should be ok for a high quality 3:2 SD game that uses "Rule of 6" pen. Playing in a team will also be better, find an open table and play 2-3 hands TOTAL. That will equate to 24 cards pen + however many are drawn as the deck is played. The math only comes to 20 cards for 1 or 4 spots and 12 cards for 5 spots where you only get one round! In a good positive count, throw out a 4th hand on the last round.

You are underbankrolled and could easily lose it all. $10-k would be more appropriate if losing the entire $5-k would put you out of the game for an extended period beyond what is acceptable to you.

SD should have a lot of heat so shoot for 30-40 mins then move to the next place if possible.

Consider reducing your bet level if you drop 50% of your roll.

Think positive, you should be playing a winning game!

I should add that your maximum bet is unclear to me. I was assuming $100 combined for you and your partner. If you are looking at $100 each, you are even more underbankrolled.

 

[caliplaya209]

First time counting and a team to boot? Not a very good mix. I would definitely suggest you get your feet wet without the added distractions of teamwork. Single deck team play is a different animal than with shoes. One of the key differences is the importance of RoX, that is the #rounds/ shuffle. There's a lot more, buts that's just for starters. You had better have at least 30 indeces under your belt as well. Trying to pull off any team at the Siena is not for rookies. Believe me. Also, when playing there make sure your first 15 mins. are playing BS only, then switch to counting. Don't go over a 1:3 spread and get the hell out of there before the hour is up. You'll get a lot more slack from Didi (Injun pit boss, nice as hell, but smart as well) but don't push it.
There's a whole lot more to the Reno thing, but the point is you need some SD counting experience and get some quality hours to hone your skills before attempting any team adventures.

Well we dont really have any advanced team playing strategies, just a combined bankroll. We plan on playing separate tables, and not even communicating while inside of the casino.

 

[Mimosine]

Well we dont really have any advanced team playing strategies, just a combined bankroll. We plan on playing separate tables, and not even communicating while inside of the casino.

if you're playing separate tables, with a combined bankroll of $5000, you can EACH max bet $50 and be relatively safe. even though you each only have 2500, if you really are playing off a team bankroll you can both play like you have the full 5000.

man you're going to have your hands full with BS, bet ramping, counting, indexes, and heat. i'd be really worried if you were using any other team strategies. if you've never counted in a casino before, it is going to take some getting used to. much longer than an 8 hour trip. if you play perfect BS can spread in + counts, know when to take insurance, you are playing a better than breakeven game. that, however, is no guarantee that you will walk away winning.

 

[caliplaya209]

if you're playing separate tables, with a combined bankroll of $5000, you can EACH max bet $50 and be relatively safe. even though you each only have 2500, if you really are playing off a team bankroll you can both play like you have the full 5000.

man you're going to have your hands full with BS, bet ramping, counting, indexes, and heat. i'd be really worried if you were using any other team strategies. if you've never counted in a casino before, it is going to take some getting used to. much longer than an 8 hour trip. if you play perfect BS can spread in + counts, know when to take insurance, you are playing a better than breakeven game. that, however, is no guarantee that you will walk away winning.

Well we were planning on having a max bet of $100 each, until this thread was created. We based our bankroll off of one of Gamemaster's guides. He said if you play with a combined bankroll, you can each go by that amount as the total bankroll. Meaning we would both act as if we had $5000 each. He said use a bet spread of 1-4, and also said a $5000 bankroll would be enough to support the max bet of 100. He said our bankroll should be about 50x your max bet. He also said theres people that follow his guide that goto Reno and play single deck, betting from $50 to $200. We did not plan this trip ourselves, we basically went by his advice.

 

[Knox]

I still like the idea of ya'll playing at the same table and trying to control the penetration via the number of hands out there. $5000 for the trip is ok if you can afford to lose it. If that is money you will need to live on next month, I would be concerned about your bet level being too high. Like I said, if you lose half you could take it down a notch (or more), depending on your financial situation.

I lost $4500 recently playing quality DD games on a 4-night trip with a 2 x $75 max bet. I won it back + a little more the next two trips totaling about 7 nights, but you need to have a firm grasp for the variance inherent in this game and be prepared for the ups and downs. You could easily lose as much as I did that ill-fated trip or more.

Personally, I'd attempt what you are planning but I'd be quick to take the max bet level down if things turn South. And $5000 is not even material to my overall financial situation, but I just hate to lose! When I won it all back I was only spreading 1-4 up to 2 x $50 playing very conservatively, so it can be done. However, that approach would cost me in the long run as it probably cost me a couple grand or more during those second two trips when I was kicking booty.

 

[Knox]

Well we were planning on having a max bet of $100 each, until this thread was created.

Love this quote!

 

[Knox]

Question for Sonny or anyone else who wants to tackle it:

Does it matter whether these two play one hand each at two different tables or one hand each at the same table? I am thinking it would not, but I am not really sure.

I know that three hands is better than two, and the fourth hand adds more benefit but the returns are diminishing with regard to risk reduction. If these two are at different tables, I am still thinking they ought to play two hands each if it fits well with the table limits. I think a $25 minimum will price them out of that market with their bankroll though. I guess they could each do 1 x $25 up to 2 x $50 at different tables, but that would be bad to do at the same table as it would probably hurt penetration on SD. Just throw the 4th hand out on the last round if profitable, that is my take.

 

[EasyRhino]

Does it matter whether these two play one hand each at two different tables or one hand each at the same table? I am thinking it would not, but I am not really sure.

yes, a variety of differences.

First, playing at seperate tables is going to be better from a risk perspective. If you play at the same tables, the results are going to be linked some by covariance. At seperate tables, totally independent.

But also, at one table dealing a "typical" rule of 6 single deck game, two spots is going to give you better effective penetration than 1 spot (or 3)

So really want you want is two counters, at two different tables, with two spots being played on each.

 

[bj bob]

yes, a variety of differences.

First, playing at seperate tables is going to be better from a risk perspective. If you play at the same tables, the results are going to be linked some by covariance. At seperate tables, totally independent.

But also, at one table dealing a "typical" rule of 6 single deck game, two spots is going to give you better effective penetration than 1 spot (or 3)

So really want you want is two counters, at two different tables, with two spots being played on each.

I second that. One player playing two spots is the ideal ploy to maximize penetration (sounds like a male enhancement ad?) on single deck. So, for your bank roll, you can both play @$5-20, in effect a $20-80 combined spread.

 

[double4more]

supercoolmancool and ScottH? Hmmmmm...

:laugh:

 

[Canceler]

Nah, can't be...

supercoolmancool and ScottH? Hmmmmm...

That thought actually crossed my mind, too.

 

[Knox]

OK, two players on two separate tables playing two hands makes sense. If the dealer at one table is going through a hot streak and never busting, both players would be suffering.

 

[bj bob]

You guys are hilarious!!

That thought actually crossed my mind, too.

Me and Rhino, the same guy? WOW! You better tell that one to AutoMonk since we've both played with him on different ocassions. Or maybe he's the one with a super multiple personality configuration. Now that's heavy, let's see...that would make him a quadaped with a triple personality subjugating a bi-coastal duo enveloped in a single primate. Now that's some clever cover. Just imagine the bet spread he can get away with.

 

[superman02]

I sent this as a pm to sonny but wouldn't mind other people's thoughts as well.

OK so we never really considered playing two hands when the count is high and I have a few questions.

Right now, with 2 of us on the team, we were gonna play with a 25-100 spread. For counts 2 or less, $25. Count of 3 or 4, $50. Count of 5, $75. And count of 6+, $100. So should we change it to 2 hands of $50 each when the count is 6+?

What is the benefit of this exactly?

And wouldn't this cause us to get more heat?

 

[EasyRhino]

No, single deck is special. It's often advantageous to have two hands in play all the time.

If you're alone, play two spots.

If you're with one civilian, play one spot.

If you're playing one spot, spread normally.

If you're playing two spots, adjust your spread so that in high counts, you've got about 2x.7 or 2x.75 of your normal max bet on the table. This would have the equivalent risk of ruin (more money at risk on table, but variance is somewhat reduced, and you should have an advantage then). The pain is you'd want to tweak your min bets down somewhat if you're playing two spots in negative counts.