My problem with tipping.

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Thunder

Well-Known Member
#1
#1
It really irritates me the way society has transformed itself in the business arena. We are now expected to tip people for just doing their jobs. You go to any Subway, Starbucks or other joint and you see tip jars everywhere.

Worse yet, you are expected to tip dealers when playing at the casinos who are expected to be taking money from you without really giving you anything in return for your business. To me, this just smacks of greed. I think all the casinos should be paying their dealers a fair rate and then maybe reward them with raises or what not based on how well they deal. Instead, businesses have figured out that instead of paying their employees what they should be getting paid, they pass on the cost to us the players and consumers.
Poker is a worse animal altogether. Not only do the dealers expect a tip, they expect a big tip when you happen to win big hands. I'm thinking well I just gave the casino $4 in rake and $1 for the bad beat jackpot (which I have oh a 1-250,000 chance of winning) and now I'm expected to give MORE MONEY?!! Maybe I'm just selfish but I don't like this trend. Thoughts?

This is probably the most infuriating thing in the tipping arena. The other day when I was in AC, a ploppie didn't know what to do when she had 4,4 vs the dealer 5. I told her that she should split it despite the dealer telling her that she'd hit it. She decided to listen to me (probably because she noticed I had been winning), and got 11 on the first hand which she doubled down and got 21 and won on the second hand as well when the dealer busted. She then gives the dealer a tip and I was just tempted to yell, "Let me get this straight! You're giving the dealer a tip for giving you bad info instead of the person who helped you win $45!!!!" Just goes to show you how backwards this world is!
 
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picasso

picasso

Banned
#2
#2
I agree with you Thunder, they should pay their employees well so they wouldn’t rely on tips for a living and that includes the restaurant server, the busboy, the pizza delivery guy etc.

On time in Vegas a ♀ croupier was visibly mad at me because I wasn’t giving her my «extras» when winning blackjack’s, even though I was badly down at the table. It’s not as if the casino’s didn’t have enough money to pay them correctly.
 
picasso

picasso

Banned
#4
#4
shadroch said:
How would you feel if in order to pay the dealers better wages,the casinos worsened the games?
Click to expand...

Where I usually play (they allow tips, of course...) the rules are:

8 Decks, H17, DAS, NO SURRENDER, PEEK for a .69% adv for the house. I know it could be worse, but how much worse?
 
2

21forme

Well-Known Member
#5
#5
picasso said:
Where I usually play (they allow tips, of course...) the rules are:

8 Decks, H17, DAS, NO SURRENDER, PEEK for a .69% adv for the house. I know it could be worse, but how much worse?
Click to expand...
That's pretty bad, but it could be 6:5 :whip:
 
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Treydog999

Active Member
#6
#6
I definitely agree that tipping is getting out of control. But it is embedded into the western culture and etiquette. When really the only reason this system of tipping was created to pass the cost from the company/casino/etc.. to the player. In China/Korea tipping is not accepted. But they get paid a standard salary that is equivalent to the job they are preforming. Tipping should NOT be expected. It is a gift or something given for a job done extra ordinarily well not mandatory. Its like if you got pissed off at Santa Claus cause he didn't give you what you wanted for Xmas when you already very well know Santa is your mom/dad, you didn't have to get anything at all :p .

Now i just don't tip at all, and avoid all this tom foolery.
 
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T

Thunder

Well-Known Member
#7
#7
Shadroch,
That would be fine by me. I just wouldn't go to those casinos that worsened their game. Eventually something would have to give and as I see it, they already have worsened their games considerably at least in AC which imo is partially why their revenues are going down. This is why I won't give any business to the Harrah's properties anymore at least in BJ. (I had to draw the line somewhere) In the long run, competition (at least in normal capitalistic markets) will force the business to be the most competitive it can be so if everyone didn't tip the dealers and the casinos saw that they were losing customers due to worsening rules, they'd be forced to cut back on paying their ceos millions and millions of $ or accept lower profits. Ceo salaries and the income disparity in this country is a whole other topic!
 
creeping panther

creeping panther

Banned
#8
#8
Tipping

I use tipping as a reward for extraordinary services provided by a dealer;)

I use it to my advantage, for an advantage. I believe in certain situations it is a very good thing to do.

As an AP becomes more experienced they will come to understand what I am saying, implying.

Never underestimate what a dealer can do to help you:grin:

They all love the tips......tit for tat..................................

A dealer that is a "Tip Whore" is an altogether different deal.:whip:

CP
 
T

Thunder

Well-Known Member
#9
#9
Creeping, I understand tipping in that regard, but trying to get them to understand that you will tip them for doing that is a tough task in itself without announcing that you're an ap ;)
 
N&B

N&B

Well-Known Member
#10
#10
OK Thunder, when was the last time you got tipped?
Are all of us in management positions?
Remember to put extra in the collection plate this weekend. It does the same thing for the same people. Different building, thats all.

Tipping is what I do with part of my discretional income. A little 2% for my fellow man never hurts.
 
EasyRhino

EasyRhino

Well-Known Member
#11
#11
a) tipping is a way to encourage obsequious service. Many people get off on that, especially if it involves getting treated like a big shot in a casino.

b) salary costs would jump substantially for casinos if they paid full salaries themselves... I don't know how much, but probably a lot. They'd make up the money somewhere. Either worse rules, reduced comps, or higher room rates. Or just shut down tables entirely.
 
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ccl

Well-Known Member
#12
#12
i use to be the type that never tipped until i started dealing, now that i have worked where your income depends on tips, i find myself tipping more and more depending on where im at. if the service is great i dont have a problem shelling out a little bit of my winnings or a little bit more to help out the person going out of their way to make my visit wherever a little bit better.

chris
 
blackchipjim

blackchipjim

Well-Known Member
#13
#13
tip for pen

I tip for better pen at the tables, if the dealer is clueless as to why I tip them they don't deserve it. I tip for good service and tip **** for the same service shown. If I can't afford to tip at a resturant I go to a fast food joint. People survive on tips unfortunatly that's a fact of the service industry. You are probably cheap and greedy but at least you admit it. blackchipjim
 
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ccl

Well-Known Member
#14
#14
i think some people go to far with tips though, i was in san francisco one time having lunch and kept ordering warm drinks that were arriving cold, when i left i tipped like 5% of the total bill because the service with the food wasnt terrible, the waitress had the guts to chase us into the street saying that the tip wasnt enough, and had her manager follow her outside of the restaraunt too to try to get us to leave a bigger tip, after that incident we told them if we had known that was going to happen we wouldnt have tipped to begin with

chris
 
T

Thunder

Well-Known Member
#15
#15
N&B said:
OK Thunder, when was the last time you got tipped?
Are all of us in management positions?
Remember to put extra in the collection plate this weekend. It does the same thing for the same people. Different building, thats all.

Tipping is what I do with part of my discretional income. A little 2% for my fellow man never hurts.
Click to expand...
You're missing the point. I have no objection to helping out a fellow person in need. I just have a problem with being essentially expected by the casinos to pay their workers for something the casinos should be paying for since they are trying to take our money without us getting much in return if anything. To answer your question, the last time I got tipped was probably last December when I was at a hotel in Dallas on business and foolishly decided to try out their Steinway grand piano they had in the lobby being that it isn't every day I get to play one ;)
 
N&B

N&B

Well-Known Member
#16
#16
Glad others here chimed in.

Agreed, its part of the service industry. I'm glad to see the Dealer learned this, and tips when customer. No harm no foul.

As to crap service, bad food, etc., I agree no tip. To get chased out expecting otherwise is why there's a Zagats, et al. I wouldn't give that establishment any more business and neither will "10 other potential customers I know" is the correct attitude. The $$$ angle sinks in after a while, or the establishment fails.

Closer to home on the 21 tables, I lose no tip, I win I tip. Again, bad attitude or poor treatment is no tip. Generally here in CT, I don't have that problem. On occasion yes, who don't?
 
picasso

picasso

Banned
#17
#17
ccl said:
i think some people go to far with tips though, i was in san francisco one time having lunch and kept ordering warm drinks that were arriving cold, when i left i tipped like 5% of the total bill because the service with the food wasnt terrible, the waitress had the guts to chase us into the street saying that the tip wasnt enough, and had her manager follow her outside of the restaraunt too to try to get us to leave a bigger tip, after that incident we told them if we had known that was going to happen we wouldnt have tipped to begin with

chris
Click to expand...
I cracked reading that one!

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
 
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jaredmt

Well-Known Member
#18
#18
im not sure what im gunna do yet as far as tipping. cus my BR is kinda small which means im gunna make less money than the casino employees will for now. if i tip them then i loose my own income. im thinkin maybe they wont expect me to tip as much since i look really young and wont bet with much money.
 
SleightOfHand

SleightOfHand

Well-Known Member
#19
#19
jaredmt said:
im not sure what im gunna do yet as far as tipping. cus my BR is kinda small which means im gunna make less money than the casino employees will for now. if i tip them then i loose my own income. im thinkin maybe they wont expect me to tip as much since i look really young and wont bet with much money.
Click to expand...
Also with a small br, I can make an expected $20/hr at my regular casino spreading 1-10 conservatively (count x 10), wonging out at -1, S17 DAS LS 8D 80% pen. Tipping $1-2 an hour cuts my EV by 5-10%, which I think is acceptable, as taxes from a job take more than that. So while I dont deny tips entirely, I think tipping a buck to a good/dealer every once in a while is fine for our level of play (assuming you are at or near my level).
 
S

shadroch

Well-Known Member
#20
#20
jaredmt said:
im not sure what im gunna do yet as far as tipping. cus my BR is kinda small which means im gunna make less money than the casino employees will for now. if i tip them then i loose my own income. im thinkin maybe they wont expect me to tip as much since i look really young and wont bet with much money.
Click to expand...
In your case, it is not income ,its discretionary spending money. Treat a dealer the same as you would a waitress. The dealer can end up doing much more for you.
 
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