Nasty nasty nasty holecarders

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#41
zengrifter said:
Yes, I do it, with ploppies, or sometimes even paying them to get their seat (not necessarily for HCing.) BUT HC'ers treat counters like ploppies, because "counters are not "real professionals" or some such. zg
It sounds like a really bad idea from the HC'ers perspective to get into a fight with counters. For one reason, the counter is probably a lot taller. :devil:

But mostly because a good counter can make money anywhere and a HC'er has a very limited supply of games to play that way. A counter and a holecarder snitch on each other and get each other thrown out, the counter will be playing next door in a few minutes, while the holecarder might be screwed for a long time and the game in question be trashed, possibly forever. A classic case of "glass houses."
 

pit15

Well-Known Member
#42
Sonny said:
Or it can be -EV for everybody. Be very careful about what information you share and who you share it with. And always keep in mind that you might be giving up someone else's game/strategy too.

-Sonny-
Of course, but generally 2 competent APs sharing game information is beneficial to both. Unfortunately there's a ton of idiots out there
 

pit15

Well-Known Member
#43
zengrifter said:
Yes, I do it, with ploppies, or sometimes even paying them to get their seat (not necessarily for HCing.) BUT HC'ers treat counters like ploppies, because "counters are not "real professionals" or some such. zg
I do things to piss off ploppies, like standing real close to them, constantly eyeing their chips/money to make them nervous, commenting on their play, being negative/unpleasant in general to try to get them out of the seat. Of course it's a very careful balancing act, I intend on PLAYING that game in front of the SAME dealer/pit I'm doing this stuff in front of, so I can't do anything that's too blatant.

I'd never do this to another AP, since not only will it not work, do you really want to be pissing off people who know what you're up to?

Paying for a seat IMO is a terrible idea. That's a 100% surefire way to draw a ton of unwanted attention onto yourself. Having an accomplice spill a drink on the ploppy would go over a lot smoother then that. Again, this goes back to the idea of don't do things normal people don't do.

Average civilians being annoying? Happens ALL the time. Civilian PAYING for a seat at a table? Never ever seen anything remotely close to this happening.
 

Sucker

Well-Known Member
#44
Mike Lea said:
That's quite a false accusation to be throwing around about a pro player.
Let me start by saying: I am extremely honored to be mentioned in the same sentence with the likes of QFit and ZenGrifter. Thank you for the compliment.

As far as the incident in question: I'm not sure that we're even talking about the same person. But I stand by my statement 100%.

There have been several times in my career in which I strongly suspected that someone had dropped a dime on me, but couldn't really be 100% certain. In THIS particular incident, however; the person in question BRAGGED about it to several different people, including my good friend who happens to also be my legal advisor, who took it upon himself to call this person the next day by telephone, in an attempt to straighten things out. There may even be a recording of this call, for all I know.

And as far as this so-called "incident" with my former partner; I worked with him very closely for several years, and although we no longer work together; I have nothing but good things to say about him. I have no recollection of anything unethical that went on with us or between us, and I will go so far as to state that HE was and is; quite possibly the MOST ethical person I have ever met in my life! So much for trying to jerk my chain....
 

Syph

Well-Known Member
#45
aslan said:
Is there anyone who watched what transpired over the years without taking sides and who could give a rational and dispassionate rendition of it?
Sure.

It's not about you.

It pains us to be reminded of that, but it's true. And it's even more true that those who have goals to accomplish rarely concern themselves with the sensitivities of others. It's been said that politeness is for those without goals, now I wouldn't go that far ... but if one were to drop an anchor in the void, it wouldn't be far off the mark. Yes, recreational counters feel superior to ploppies, and they have a right to. They are aspiring towards rational play (with a little hope thrown in). And they feel rather indignant being compared to the cannon fodder. But that is a perception created by the recreational counter. The dedicated player doesn't care. The more serious you take the game, the more focused your objective becomes. Those that interfere are managed as efficiently as possible. Regardless of who you are, how you define others, and how I should relate to how you define yourself in relation to others.

It's not about you.

It's why I recommend stomping a little for beginner players. It's not because acting like a dick is something to aspire towards. It isn't. But it's a means to an end. It allows you to focus on your objective by minimizing the friction you will face in, and out, of the casino. I know, that sounds counter-intuitive (hah!), but big dicks get breathing room because assholes know they may get fucked.

That Team America thing.

So don't be a pussy. Don't dribble about past hurts and poor treatment. Pussies are pretty accommodating. It's their nature. And don't be an asshole. That's just foul. Be a big dick. Big dicks have a nice look about them. They swing and sway in the wind, cause fear and worship oversees, tend to earn respect even from pussies and assholes alike. And if some dick crosses your path, take it in stride. He has objectives to attain. And maybe, if you are a big enough dick, you won't care.

You'll have objectives of your own.

All the best,
Syph
 

Machinist

Well-Known Member
#46
Syph said:
Sure.

It's not about you.

It pains us to be reminded of that, but it's true. And it's even more true that those who have goals to accomplish rarely concern themselves with the sensitivities of others. It's been said that politeness is for those without goals, now I wouldn't go that far ... but if one were to drop an anchor in the void, it wouldn't be far off the mark. Yes, recreational counters feel superior to ploppies, and they have a right to. They are aspiring towards rational play (with a little hope thrown in). And they feel rather indignant being compared to the cannon fodder. But that is a perception created by the recreational counter. The dedicated player doesn't care. The more serious you take the game, the more focused your objective becomes. Those that interfere are managed as efficiently as possible. Regardless of who you are, how you define others, and how I should relate to how you define yourself in relation to others.

It's not about you.

It's why I recommend stomping a little for beginner players. It's not because acting like a dick is something to aspire towards. It isn't. But it's a means to an end. It allows you to focus on your objective by minimizing the friction you will face in, and out, of the casino. I know, that sounds counter-intuitive (hah!), but big dicks get breathing room because assholes know they may get fucked.

That Team America thing.

So don't be a pussy. Don't dribble about past hurts and poor treatment. Pussies are pretty accommodating. It's their nature. And don't be an asshole. That's just foul. Be a big dick. Big dicks have a nice look about them. They swing and sway in the wind, cause fear and worship oversees, tend to earn respect even from pussies and assholes alike. And if some dick crosses your path, take it in stride. He has objectives to attain. And maybe, if you are a big enough dick, you won't care.

You'll have objectives of your own.

All the best,
Syph
NICE!!!!!

KInda like walk softly, but carry a "Big Dick" ?????:eek:

Mach
 

JulieCA

Well-Known Member
#47
Asshole behavior is asshole behavior, whether it's a counter or HCer trying to get ploppies to move on to a different table, or a ploppy who is an asshole just because s/he's an asshole. The only difference is the ploppy has no goals. Why should the pro "play nice" just because he has goals? The ploppy who is just plainly an asshole isn't going to play nice, not for any reason.

That said, it's just plain stupid to burn a game out of spite.

Since I'm a recreational player, if you come to my table and act like an asshole just to get me to move on so you can further your own goals, I will probably add annoying you right back to my recreational list for the day. This is a dick that swings both ways.
 

Sucker

Well-Known Member
#49
yan_huang_zi_sun said:
English is not my native language. What is a "asshole"? Is it a super smart blackjack player?
Quite the opposite.
"Asshole" is a slang term for "rectum". When a person is referred to as an "asshole", it's a very insulting term with several different meanings, on of which means "someone who goes out of his way to NOT get along with others".
 

Sucker

Well-Known Member
#50
Very eloquent post, Syph; and I agree. The big dicks DO get respect. But just to make sure we don't get side-tracked; from the very first post of this thread we were not talking about dicks or pussies, we were talking about assholes. And for the most part, an asshole commands NO respect.

JulieCA said:
This is a dick that swings both ways.
And Julie sums up the whole point of the conversation in just one sentence. Very nice :)
 
#51
Sucker said:
Very eloquent post, Syph; and I agree. The big dicks DO get respect...
I don't agree, Casinos have more tolerance than most businesses for customers who throw the rattle out of the pram. But be too much of a dick, and you'll be de-comped, escorted, hawked, and then banned, Do it to the wrong guy, and in a few seconds you will be down on the floor trying to cover up your face like a sissy. In a place where I play often, casino security has instructions to not break up fights without the police present and you can expect to be beaten for 10 minutes if no other patrons decide to intervene. I've seen it happen. There is nothing respectable about it.

So do what you want, but don't try to palm it off as being for +EV rather than your own gratification.
 
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