Need help steping up my game

[celery]

Hello everyone. I'm usually the weekend warrior hitting up the tables on the weekends, but lately I've been very interested in stepping it up to the next level. Please help me by giving your advise and suggestions!

Background: BS strategy: 100%, using Hi-Lo with indexes(Ill18, Fab 4) with some omitted(like anything with a -2 or lower). Starting BR: $5000 replenishable(will add any BJ winnings to the BR)

My BJ table rules:
8Deck 3:2 BJ payoff, S17, LS, RSA(Up to 4 total max hands), Double on any two cards and splits, pen(75-80%). Min-$10, Max-$300. Mid-shoe entry acceptable.
There are also A $5 minimum table too, but it is always crowded(its also a smoking table and crowded. Did I also forgot to mention that it is crowded?) Also there are $50 min tables, but I will not touch that until my BR increases big time. I am at the $10 tables.

My plays:
I usually Wong in at TC +2 and Wong out at TC 0. I can stand there all day if I have to. Instead of betting on one hand, I usually bet on two hands instead(For example 2x$10 instead of 1x$20) My spread is 1-8 but, I may fear that this may be a bit too low?

Please give me your inputs. Thank you for reading!

 

[zengrifter]

My BJ table rules:
8Deck 3:2 BJ payoff, S17, LS, RSA(Up to 4 total max hands), Double on any two cards and splits, pen(75-80%). Min-$10, Max-$300. Mid-shoe entry acceptable.

My plays:
I usually Wong in at TC +2 and Wong out at TC 0. I can stand there all day if I have to. Instead of betting on one hand, I usually bet on two hands instead(For example 2x$10 instead of 1x$20) My spread is 1-8 but, I may fear that this may be a bit too low?!

1. We need estimate of %pene
2. 1-8 is more than enough for your back-counting game.

 

[PierceNation]

How replenishable is your replenishable bank? I know the $5 tables are crowded but a $10 minimum will come round and bite you in the ass if you play it long enough!

I think there are several things you could consider if you want to up your game:
1.Learn ALL the indices for HiLo
2. Learn a more efficient and slightly more profitable count (Zen, HiOptII)
3. Start looking into some more advanced techniques, such as shuffletracking, holecarding or even joining up with a friend and start playing as a team.

Pierce

 

[celery]

@zengrifter: Penetration is about 75% to 80%. Thank you for your input on the spread.

@Pierce: I will look into the advanced techniques that you mentioned. Playing with a friend is always good, but too bad I don't have that option. BR is $1.2k replenishable per month. Thanks for your input as well!

 

[jaygruden]

What state is your game in? Rules sound very familiar except the RSA rule. PM if you'd rather. I'll usually play 6D with lower spreads but if playing 8 decks, I'll spread 1-20 on an 8 deck shoe without wonging ($15-$300). You're wong lowers your variance so you don't need as big a spread for same EV but you may be able to increase your wong ramp without much heat (1-10, 1-12).

 

[celery]

I can't PM yet =P The RSA is you can resplit Aces up to four times max. There is another casino place that has same rules, except it is 6Deck. However, at that place, I can't wong in as easily(and frequently). I kinda need it for my limited BR atm. =P

 

[PierceNation]

If you can afford to replenish it at 1.2K a month then you will be absolutely fine with $10 minimums, You'll be quite safe.

If you want to look into shuffle tracking I would recommend these books to have a look at:
Blackjack Blueprint by Rick Blaine (Introductory/Beginner Techniques)
Shuffle Tracking for Beginners by George C (Introductory/Beginner Techniques)
The Shuffle Trackers Cookbook by Arnold Snyder (Intermediate and Expert techniques)

I would also recommend Mason Malmuths 'Blackjack essays' which hosts a great deal of more advanced ideas/advantage plays.

As for Holecard play, I have only one text on it and that is Million Dollar Blackjack by Ken Uston, not sure on its relativity or use in todays game so maybe someone else will be able to suggest something better for that.

Good Luck!

Pierce

 

[kewljason]

I think there are several things you could consider if you want to up your game:
1.Learn ALL the indices for HiLo
2. Learn a more efficient and slightly more profitable count (Zen, HiOptII)
3. Start looking into some more advanced techniques, such as shuffletracking, holecarding or even joining up with a friend and start playing as a team.

Pierce

I couldn't disagree more with most of this advise. 1. For the game the OP described that he plays, learning all indices will have very minimal effect. Learning more negative indices might be beneficial if he was forced to play all due to lack of tables, but he clearly stated he is able to wong in and out regularly. That approach is more profitable than learning all indices. 2. The benefits of learning a level 2 count are often debated here. I am sure my position is well known by now. I will concede there are certain times that it can be beneficial, like hand held games, but again, the game that the OP describes is the least of those. For 8 deck game the 'improvement' if any, will be minimal. 3. Advanced techniques? Although the OP mentioned 'taking it to next level', I took that to mean tweaking things to improve his current game. Moving on to advanced techniques is quite a jump, especially for a weekend warrior type player.

Lastly a comment about your signature. Besides disagreeing with your splitting tens comment, I completely don't get the second part? Is it just an attempt at humor by inserting the word "penis", because it just makes no sense to me as written. Maybe it goes right over my head.

 

[21forme]

I agree with KJ's post above, except for his spelling of the word "advice." :grin:

 

[kewljason]

I agree with KJ's post above, except for his spelling of the word "advice." :grin:

Ok Don S! Just for that I am going to leave it as is. :laugh:

 

[AC232323]

I agree with KJ on this for the most part. The number of hours that one would have to put in to learn and become completely proficient with level II count is simply not worth it for a weekend warrior playing an 8 deck game. Somebody with a limited bank roll like this should not be wasting their time learning a new count -- they should be getting more hours at the tables. I am split on the recommendation for learning more index plays. I think the value/time of learning these plays is a lot higher than learning a level II count, but depending on which plays you have already memorized and how long it takes you to learn new plays it might not be worth it.
One final thought that may or may not be good advice and is probably worthy of some discussion: try to increase your spread when you think you can get away with it and still look like a ploppy. When you have a replenishable bankroll like you do, parlay your winnings...ploppies do it all the time! Yes you may be technically overbetting your current bankroll when you do this, but if your bankroll is really replenishable it shouldn't really matter and you will just be increasing your EV. For example, if at the start of the round you have a TC of +3 and have a $50 bet out and you win and the count goes up, parlay your winnings for the next round. I have a feeling that the last part of my post might be seen as bad info for some, so let's see a discussion of it

 

[PierceNation]

Hello everyone. I'm usually the weekend warrior hitting up the tables on the weekends, but lately I've been very interested in stepping it up to the next level. Please help me by giving your advise and suggestions!

The OP wants to know how he can reach the next level, he can reach the next level by learning advanced techniques. Some of which are only a 'quite a jump' if quite frankly, your lazy. (e.g Cutoff tracking is simple, even with an awkward shuffle. Best half tracking? Straightforward)

KJ, Are you suggesting that anyone who only plays Saturdays and Sundays (weekend warrior) should never attempt to go beyond backcounting with HiLo?

If the OP, like myself, is a serious recreational player who enjoys the game, then he will benefit from learning these techniques, and will enjoy learning them in the process.

Maybe learning 166 indices or a level 2 count will only be marginal, but marginal advantages add up, as you should well know.
As a very crude example betting $1,000,000 with a 0.1% advantage would yield an EV of $1000 profit every bet. If the game existed and I had the money id be happy playing that game for $1000 a hand. Heads up what would that hourly rate be?!

So to reiterate, the OP is proficient at wonging, proficient at a lower level counting system and wants to improve his game. The advice still stands = more indices, better system or advanced techniques. The marginal improvement will be better than no improvement.

If the OP doesn't take my advice then thats fine, but its not bad advice. If he eventually went on to be able to track slugs he'll be a better blackjack player than most.

As for the signature, If you don't get it or find it funny thats fine, i'm not a comedian.

 

[zengrifter]

How replenishable is your replenishable bank? I know the $5 tables are crowded but a $10 minimum will come round and bite you in the ass if you play it long enough!

Its okay for wonging. zg

 

[Gamblor]

Its okay for wonging. zg

A $50 min table would be ok with enough wonging, although such conditions probably don't exist anywhere.

 

[shinyam]

I'm not sure how your max bet is $300, when you have an 8 to 1 spread at $10 min.

A $300 max bet with $5000 bankroll carries a very high ROR.

The best thing you can do is to ensure that your play is accurate. Learning more indices will not add much. Neitehr will learning a different count system.

Get CV blackack and practice daily to ensure that your play is flawless.

 

[tthree]

I'm not sure how your max bet is $300, when you have an 8 to 1 spread at $10 min.

A $300 max bet with $5000 bankroll carries a very high ROR.

The best thing you can do is to ensure that your play is accurate. Learning more indices will not add much. Neitehr will learning a different count system.

Get CV blackack and practice daily to ensure that your play is flawless.

I think that is table max and min. He was listing the playing conditions.

 

[chichow]

South Korea

The OP is listing playing conditions in Seoul, South Korea.
There are a couple of casinos around Seoul.

Statement:
Not taking sides, but IMHO and based on my experience: kewljason is correct.

Reasoning:
The added brain frying from the second level counts and mastering all indices IMHO isn't worth it for the OP because

The weekend playing conditions in Seoul aren't the best. The tables are quite crowded especially at the chip level that the OP is playing at. So the OP already isn't going to get as many hands per session

The OP is limited by the number of tables he can wong in and out off. This is strictly a function of the casinos not being as large. They are bigger than the largest of the London casinos, but absolutely cannot compare to AC or Vegas.

At the OP level, the tables are ASM.

--

If it was strictly about EV, then the OP should look for non-peak hours w/ less crowds.

Once he gets a better bankroll and is playing more hands, then the indices becomes more important. (Of course he can start practicing now, but IMHO again its more important to not make mistakes at his current level)