New to CC - Niagara Casinos?

[Hyru]

Hey all, my 1st post so wanted to start by saying Hi to everyone

Im new to card counting, been trying to get a lot of reading in. It seems very interesting!

I have a question in regards to my local casino (Casino Niagara - located in Ontario Canada).

I was at their blackjack table yesterday and was looking at the machine that deals the cards. Asked the dealer how many decks they use... he said 5... Theres also no shoe.

How do these machines work? The dealer never stops to shuffle the cards and the cards never end... its just a forever ongoing process of dealing (other than when they bring fresh cards to the table).
How can one count cards on a table like this? It seems like after every hand is dealt... the dealer puts those cards back into the shuffling machine which shuffles them again and gives them the possibility of coming up in the next hand.


For example... lets say youre dealt a 10of clubs and an ace of hearts.
Now, 5 decks means theres 5 of these cards available... take that SPECIFIC card and put a red mark on it.... after yhe hand is done... the dealer puts the cards into the machine which may redeal that very same card.

Is this possible or am I not understanding how those machinese work? The dealer himself had no idea.

 

[shadroch]

This is the dread CSM( continuos shuffle machine).You can not count them.

 

[Automatic Monkey]

Hey all, my 1st post so wanted to start by saying Hi to everyone

Im new to card counting, been trying to get a lot of reading in. It seems very interesting!

I have a question in regards to my local casino (Casino Niagara - located in Ontario Canada).

I was at their blackjack table yesterday and was looking at the machine that deals the cards. Asked the dealer how many decks they use... he said 5... Theres also no shoe.

How do these machines work? The dealer never stops to shuffle the cards and the cards never end... its just a forever ongoing process of dealing (other than when they bring fresh cards to the table).
How can one count cards on a table like this? It seems like after every hand is dealt... the dealer puts those cards back into the shuffling machine which shuffles them again and gives them the possibility of coming up in the next hand.


For example... lets say youre dealt a 10of clubs and an ace of hearts.
Now, 5 decks means theres 5 of these cards available... take that SPECIFIC card and put a red mark on it.... after yhe hand is done... the dealer puts the cards into the machine which may redeal that very same card.

Is this possible or am I not understanding how those machinese work? The dealer himself had no idea.

You can't play there. It's a continuous shuffle machine and card-counting techniques are useless.

 

[Hyru]

sorry I didnt know the lingo, I guess that would have saved a lot of time for explaining.

So cant count cards on CSM's.... man, there goes all the local casino...

Seems like theyve all upgraded to that

 

[Renzey]

Only about half are CSMs

At Fallsview Niagara, only about half the B/J tables are CSMs and they are the lowest stakes ones ($10-to-$300). Most others on the main floor ($15-to-$300 and $25-to-$500) are Auto Shufflers using two 8 deck setups. Pen is poor -- 5.75 decks dealt, on average. High limit room is six deck, deal 4.0, $100 min, hand shuffled. Rules are S17, DOA, DAS.

 

[EasyRhino]

Seneca Niagra on the Americaland side had 8 deck shoes with seemingly average penetration, I don't think I saw any CSMs there.

 

[Hyru]

At Fallsview Niagara, only about half the B/J tables are CSMs and they are the lowest stakes ones ($10-to-$300). Most others on the main floor ($15-to-$300 and $25-to-$500) are Auto Shufflers using two 8 deck setups. Pen is poor -- 5.75 decks dealt, on average. High limit room is six deck, deal 4.0, $100 min, hand shuffled. Rules are S17, DOA, DAS.

Thanks Renzey...

I was actually playing at Casino Niagara (the older casino)... it seems like all of their tables had the CSM's...

A few questions if you dont mind... (i know these are likely newbie questions but whenever you get the time to answer, id appreciate it :grin: )

1... is it possible to count cards on auto shufflers?
2... "Pen is poor 5.75 decks dealt" - not sure what this means? Whats "pen" ? Does this mean out of the 8 decks about 5.75 decks are dealt?

 

[BFC]

Thanks Renzey...

I was actually playing at Casino Niagara (the older casino)... it seems like all of their tables had the CSM's...

A few questions if you dont mind... (i know these are likely newbie questions but whenever you get the time to answer, id appreciate it :grin: )

1... is it possible to count cards on auto shufflers?
2... "Pen is poor 5.75 decks dealt" - not sure what this means? Whats "pen" ? Does this mean out of the 8 decks about 5.75 decks are dealt?

1. No, Not on a CSM that shuffles every hand. On an autoshuffler that's used only after say 6 decks are dealt and then all are reshuffled, yes.

2. Yes. Good penetration is, from what i gather, at least 80% of cards. (which would be 6.5 decks, but 7 would be better.)

 

[shadroch]

Just to clarify-
Yes,you can count cards on a game that uses an Automatic Shuffle Machine(ASM)
You can't count on a Continuos Shuffle Machine (CSM)

 

[GeorgeD]

Just to clarify-
Yes,you can count cards on a game that uses an Automatic Shuffle Machine(ASM)
You can't count on a Continuos Shuffle Machine (CSM)

....... and note that the dreaded CSM's have no separate shoe, but just keep dealing out of the machine. The ASM's have a regular shoe, but when it's exhausted they pull a freshly shuffled deck out of the machine. Look carefully ..... you'll see some of both at Fallsview and an occasional hand shuffled game.

As said Seneca Niagara on the US side has no ASM or CSM, just hand shuffled 8 deck games with average pen (maybe 75-80%). Beatable with counting, but not easy. $10 is the lowest sometimes only $15 when it's busy. PS: no passport required to drive between US and Canada ... at least for now.