hi, know how to count cards at quite a fast rate (1 deck in 17 seconds) and have learnt the advanced techniques such as ace sequencing, key card cutting and nrs shuffle tracking. but i dont have a bankroll or a team. how can i go about making money? i would like to hear from experienced people and about their experiences when starting out.
New to counting
- Thread starter gkaridi
- Start date
I would say start small and work your way up. Forget about team play for now (for a lot of reasons), and just work on your bankroll. If you have $5 tables available I would start playing when you have $500 to $1000 saved up and spread $5-$60, but most others on this site are more conservative and would recommend you save $3000-$6000 to play at that level.
I started out last November with a $1500 bankroll on a Vegas with friends with the intent to GAMBLE as we always had. Before the trip I read about/learned how to count, but wasn't expecting it to work very well (I had read about/tried sports betting/dice control etc. before.) I made $1000+ that trip. I had lost my entire bankroll the previous 3 trips as a gambler, so this was quite the change.
The last two months i have played almost 150 hours of blackjack and have made good money, pretty close to my theoretical hourly rate. I have spent a lot of time on this site, reading books, etc. and just learned as I went. I would recommend you do the same. Just get started and see how it goes as long as you can afford to play.
I started out last November with a $1500 bankroll on a Vegas with friends with the intent to GAMBLE as we always had. Before the trip I read about/learned how to count, but wasn't expecting it to work very well (I had read about/tried sports betting/dice control etc. before.) I made $1000+ that trip. I had lost my entire bankroll the previous 3 trips as a gambler, so this was quite the change.
The last two months i have played almost 150 hours of blackjack and have made good money, pretty close to my theoretical hourly rate. I have spent a lot of time on this site, reading books, etc. and just learned as I went. I would recommend you do the same. Just get started and see how it goes as long as you can afford to play.
The Old Fashioned Way
Get a job and whenever you have enough $ to play a reasonably long session; and your hourly EV is more then twice your hourly wage including benefits, go play. Also; you may need to learn about expenses, if you drive 4hrs and end up playing 1 hr you were probably better off to not play at all.:joker::whip:
Get a job and whenever you have enough $ to play a reasonably long session; and your hourly EV is more then twice your hourly wage including benefits, go play. Also; you may need to learn about expenses, if you drive 4hrs and end up playing 1 hr you were probably better off to not play at all.:joker::whip:
hey gkaridi! good work on learning how to count at a fast pace - well done!
Now, sorry to be one of the conservatives, but if you are looking to spread $5-$60 then you should ahve at least $6,000. If you turn up with $500-$1000 you are almost guaranteed to blow yourself up very quickly. When I started counting, I did in fact start with exactly a $5-$60 spread and a $5,000 bankroll. However my BR was in fact only a notional one. At the time I actually had a bigger bankroll available, but started out small with $5 units to minimise damage while learning. After 100-150 hours I went to $10 units (on a $10k roll), and after a further 100 hours or so I went to $25 units (on a $25k roll). To give you an idea of the variance you might encounter, you can have a look at the spreadsheet I uploaded on the sticky thread in the Card Counting section.
It is really hard to make money counting cards if you dont have a BR to start off. So your options are to either save up a BR as others have already suggested by working hard and saving as much as you can, or to try and get yourself on a team - however it will probably be difficult to get onto a team unless you can show some experience - however you might be able to make a contact here on the forum - you never know.
If you do get some money together then I would suggest a very conservative approach such as backcounting and only playing positive counts, and getting as many comps, coupons, promotions as you can.
I am very intrigued to hear that you already know how to sequence aces, shuffle track and to do cuts - this is not normally something that players start out with. I am not sure whether this means you have practiced cuts on the kitchen table or whether you have actually applied in the casino. If you can actually apply successfully in a casino AND you can find some locations where there opportunities, then I would suggest you focus on those techniques because the EV and the variance for those techniques will be far far lower than for counting, and consequently you would be able to get away with a smaller BR - and if you can do those techniques, then why bother counting at all :grin: (though of course you'll most likely use counting for your ST).
Hope that helps. & good luck to you!!
Now, sorry to be one of the conservatives, but if you are looking to spread $5-$60 then you should ahve at least $6,000. If you turn up with $500-$1000 you are almost guaranteed to blow yourself up very quickly. When I started counting, I did in fact start with exactly a $5-$60 spread and a $5,000 bankroll. However my BR was in fact only a notional one. At the time I actually had a bigger bankroll available, but started out small with $5 units to minimise damage while learning. After 100-150 hours I went to $10 units (on a $10k roll), and after a further 100 hours or so I went to $25 units (on a $25k roll). To give you an idea of the variance you might encounter, you can have a look at the spreadsheet I uploaded on the sticky thread in the Card Counting section.
It is really hard to make money counting cards if you dont have a BR to start off. So your options are to either save up a BR as others have already suggested by working hard and saving as much as you can, or to try and get yourself on a team - however it will probably be difficult to get onto a team unless you can show some experience - however you might be able to make a contact here on the forum - you never know.
If you do get some money together then I would suggest a very conservative approach such as backcounting and only playing positive counts, and getting as many comps, coupons, promotions as you can.
I am very intrigued to hear that you already know how to sequence aces, shuffle track and to do cuts - this is not normally something that players start out with. I am not sure whether this means you have practiced cuts on the kitchen table or whether you have actually applied in the casino. If you can actually apply successfully in a casino AND you can find some locations where there opportunities, then I would suggest you focus on those techniques because the EV and the variance for those techniques will be far far lower than for counting, and consequently you would be able to get away with a smaller BR - and if you can do those techniques, then why bother counting at all :grin: (though of course you'll most likely use counting for your ST).
Hope that helps. & good luck to you!!
It depends on what region you live in to be honest...If you have no bankroll, then you can only do what others suggest and work hard to save for it. Personally, I started out the same way back in the midwest and with no real bankroll I ended up losing in the errrr semi-short long run
So basically, what I am saying is DO NOT BOTHER to play until you have a dedicated amount of money saved up.. The amount you decide to save should be on what type of games you have available to you..If you only have 6 and 8 decks available then you need about 6 - 8 grand and a serious wonging schedule:whip: If you are serious and move in search of greener pastures, you can save up 2-3 grand and play less decks with lower limits. Personally, I would save up more...Get a job, work hard, save up. And stay disciplined!!
So basically, what I am saying is DO NOT BOTHER to play until you have a dedicated amount of money saved up.. The amount you decide to save should be on what type of games you have available to you..If you only have 6 and 8 decks available then you need about 6 - 8 grand and a serious wonging schedule:whip: If you are serious and move in search of greener pastures, you can save up 2-3 grand and play less decks with lower limits. Personally, I would save up more...Get a job, work hard, save up. And stay disciplined!!
Thinking 8k for eight deckers with shitty pen, and crowded conditions..Like I said depends largely on where you are located. Not to say you can't do it on much less, but being new he should have a saftey net somewhere no? Especially with the advanced strategies that he "claims" he is familiar with. High variance is associated when being new and trying to execute these strategies.
How much would you suggest? 4-5g?
How much would you suggest? 4-5g?
I am also impressed with your ability ,but also would like to know where these guys play? $5 to $60 swing would get a look from the pb plus the dealer would rat on me ,the eye would rat on me. May be able to get by a few times but don't plan on playing at that one casino very long. Some darn good advice from these guys ,that is why i love this board. I love the casino i play at. Good comps , food , free rm. High variance in my betting would be taking too much of a chance of losing that. I have posted a( simple way of betting) on another post. It is my way of betting (now). The variance is not that much to be noticed ,so you wont lose or win much . $1000 should get you started. Good luck no matter what path you follow. Pogo
Ming, I agree with you - even with a $5-$60 spread and a $6,000 roll the ROR will still be well in excess of an acceptable level - i got about 11% with 75% pen, 6d, wong out at -4. So imagine what it will be with something like $1,500 BR (I got 58% in the model I used).
Go figure!
I find it interesting that we are all chipping with lots of advice to a someone who has posted twice and hasn't even responded to all our help :grin:
Go figure!
I find it interesting that we are all chipping with lots of advice to a someone who has posted twice and hasn't even responded to all our help :grin:
LOL I know the way I bet will not & has not impressed anyone on this board. I don't know if I am winning because of the way I have changed my variance or if I am just having a run of good luck. The variance is so small > $10 min count , $15 plus count, $25 if the count & penetration is right. As I said ,I only take $1000 a trip to play with & I guess I need to get my ass kicked a few times to change . Believe me! I know the way you guys play is way superior than my way . ( My bankroll will not allow) Thank's for the positive reply LOL POGO I guess I should just stick with my original Of counting each deck as minus 2. EXample 6 deck shoe would be minus 12 to start ,but I have missed some good runs by doing this ,so go ahead & kick my ass again LOL. OML! I forgot to mention , I only advance my bet on any plus count after overcoming the minus 2 on each deck according to the penetration.
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