Next Weekend in Vegas.

[Automatic Monkey]

mdlbj I'm sure you are very good, and I was not calling Mike and Dave the beer league. I referred to them as the pros and to the unproven scholars on this board as maybe less than that. I just think its tough when you are a novice trying to get information, who do you listen to. Even the message board teachers don't agree on things. Who do you trust a Monkey or a Bojack, and what the hell is a Bojack anyway. My point is I read this whole thread and I find myself no better off than when I started. Amused maybe, but that doesn't help my game. I know you started this thread saying you were going to an MIT seminar. What I'd like is some details on what the real pros say, and leave all the other distractions to another thread that it would be better suited for.

Whoa hold the phone, I don't see anyone here posting their opinion and describing it as anything but that. Nobody here is trying to give card counting lessons, nor asking for trust.

The point is that everything you need to know to be a competent card counter is available free online. What you need to be a professional AP is experience and a lot of information that is not openly discussed. It's my position that there is no need for multi-hundred dollar seminars because they are neither necessary to teach the basics nor sufficient for turning you into a professional. Just an opinion, and several other players here disagree.

The value of threads like this one is that you have people like Bojack and the Grifter sharing their real-world experiences absolutely free, and you are free to either accept or reject what we have to say. An alternative is people like John Patrick and Jerry Patterson who claim to be "real pros" who will sell you a book or a course that is absolutely worthless. Not to put the MIT guys in the same category as them, not in any way, but until you have blackjack knowledge yourself, you can't separate the charlatans from the useful sources so you might as well listen to everyone, at least for a while.

 

[JoeV]

You know what, I'm surprised that more of us haven't said that...lots of those that talk the talk but are still crawling. In my case, I'm here to learn and toss ideas back and forth. But go back and look at some of the posts from people who come off like they wrote the book on this stuff. I try not to be too sarcastic, but what the f***

good luck

Just out of curiousity who do you think would be the best sources of information on this website. I mean I know everybody has their moments, but I'm a pretty no nonsense guy and I have read much nonsense. I have read a couple of books that got me started, but I do like the idea of live networking with others. Its just at this early stage of my experience its hard to seperate fact from fiction.

 

[supercoolmancool]

But go back and look at some of the posts from people who come off like they wrote the book on this stuff. I try not to be too sarcastic, but what the f***

good luck

Actually, ChefJJ, I am in the middle of writing a book on blackjack. By the time I turn 21, I'll be a full fledged published pro!

 

[ChefJJ]

Actually, ChefJJ, I am in the middle of writing a book on blackjack. By the time I turn 21, I'll be a full fledged published pro!

Good for you...what new are you bringing to the table? Hell man, why don't you just start charging people to do seminars...you SOUND qualified.

Don't be so freaking defensive because you have nearly zip casino experience...we're all levels of experience here.

 

[ChefJJ]

Just out of curiousity who do you think would be the best sources of information on this website. I mean I know everybody has their moments, but I'm a pretty no nonsense guy and I have read much nonsense. I have read a couple of books that got me started, but I do like the idea of live networking with others. Its just at this early stage of my experience its hard to seperate fact from fiction.

Joe, I don't really know for sure...I've only been looking at this site for a couple of months. I have some of my own opinions, but I'm not a professional and only play recreationally--but enjoy winning. Just stick with the site and you'll figure it out. There are a lot of good posters here, and it is their opinions, ideas, and commentary that you can learn from.

good luck

 

[ScottH]

Joey, if only the top respected people could post opinions this would be a lonely place, and you wouldn't get any say in any of the discussions. The whole point of a message board is to get opinions from all kinds of players, so why complain when people give them?

If you only want to hear from respected pros, then you could censor everyone on here except for a handful of people, but you'd be missing out on a ton of information.

And another point that I should respond to. Experience is NOT directly related to skill/knowledge. You could be a card counter for 30 years and that doesnt mean you are any smarter or better than someone doing it for a year, it all depends on the person.

 

[ChefJJ]

Joey, if only the top respected people could post opinions this would be a lonely place, and you wouldn't get any say in any of the discussions. The whole point of a message board is to get opinions from all kinds of players, so why complain when people give them?

If you only want to hear from respected pros, then you could censor everyone on here except for a handful of people, but you'd be missing out on a ton of information.

And another point that I should respond to. Experience is NOT directly related to skill/knowledge. You could be a card counter for 30 years and that doesnt mean you are any smarter or better than someone doing it for a year, it all depends on the person.

Joe said he was no-nonsense...you seem defensive too.

 

[supercoolmancool]

JoeV!,
Just put everyone on ignore, except for me and Scotth and you should be fine.

 

[ScottH]

Joe said he was no-nonsense...you seem defensive too.

I don't need to get defensive since I don't give a sh!t about him. I'm just saying the idea that only respected pros should voice their opinion is just pure BS that needs to be responded to.

 

[mdlbj]

Just out of curiosity who do you think would be the best sources of information on this website. I mean I know everybody has their moments, but I'm a pretty no nonsense guy and I have read much nonsense. I have read a couple of books that got me started, but I do like the idea of live networking with others. Its just at this early stage of my experience its hard to separate fact from fiction.

If your looking to learn about tournament play, Ken Smith.

Team play would be BOJACK.

Software stuff would be QFIT, The software developed by him is highly respect throughout the Blackjack Community, PRO and beginners alike.

If your using RED7 or the Kiss count would be RENZY as in Fred Renzy the one who wrote the book on the subject.

If your looking for the mathematics that are behind the game, go to Wong's site bj21.com.

Not to sure who is the resident expert on KO. ScottH and supercoolmancool seem well versed on it and use it.

Any other questions and I mean about anything would be Zengrifter.

If you would like to know what Blackjack Institute has to offer I would love to tell you my thoughts on it or, you can go to the site and ask MIT_Mike and Mr. J yourself. Blackjack Institute They use HI-LO with Numbers Plays. And their training is second to none. In my opinion.

Sonny and zengrifter have posted links to some excellent info somewhere on this forum as well.

Hope this helps.

 

[JoeV]

I don't need to get defensive since I don't give a sh!t about him. I'm just saying the idea that only respected pros should voice their opinion is just pure BS that needs to be responded to.

I appreciate your concern. Since you have taken the time to voice how much you care it makes it easier to start weeding out who to listen to already. To the others I appreciate the the good advice and I will just keep an eye out for stuff like this. Good luck turning pro, it looks you can check off self discipline as something you need to learn, it seems you are already full of it lol!

 

[21forme]

JoeV,
When I decided I wanted to learn advantage play, I did some Googling, read several published books, decided on a system to use, then practiced practiced practiced, before going into the casino. This isn't rocket science.

 

[Brutus]

JoeV,
When I decided I wanted to learn advantage play, I did some Googling, read several published books, decided on a system to use, then practiced practiced practiced, before going into the casino. This isn't rocket science.

thats right. counting isnt rocket science, getting away with it is the hard part.

 

[ChefJJ]

Joe,

What system for counting do you use? Or are you looking for some to explore? Mldbj gave a good rundown of specialists, but you will definitely find plenty of "users" here. I think Brutus put it pretty well--doing it without catching heat is the trick to it all.

I use KO, but have been doing it for a short period of time in the casinos...which has been an interesting transition from the basic hi-lo. The learning curve hasn't been bad at all, but I am a recreational player who loves to win, so it helps from a simplicity standpoint.

good luck

 

[xxrenegadexx]

I appreciate your concern. Since you have taken the time to voice how much you care it makes it easier to start weeding out who to listen to already. To the others I appreciate the the good advice and I will just keep an eye out for stuff like this. Good luck turning pro, it looks you can check off self discipline as something you need to learn, it seems you are already full of it lol!

if your talking about scott h .... i could have told you this two weeks ago...

 

[supercoolmancool]

I know the lifestyle isn't as great as it is portrayed in the movies, etc., but it can't be any worse than working 9-5 at a job you don't enjoy!

The lifestyle is as glamorous or as unglamorous as you make it. And I'm a glamorous person!

 

[mdlbj]

The lifestyle is as glamorous or as unglamorous as you make it. And I'm a glamorous person!

If you want to be an AP in vegas, blend in with the tourists.

 

[ChefJJ]

If you want to be an AP in vegas, blend in with the tourists.

I think those BJ tournament shows and high stakes poker shows infect some people's minds with illusions of grandeur...the glitterati are coming!

 

[PokerJunky]

Just out of curiousity who do you think would be the best sources of information on this website. I mean I know everybody has their moments, but I'm a pretty no nonsense guy and I have read much nonsense. I have read a couple of books that got me started, but I do like the idea of live networking with others. Its just at this early stage of my experience its hard to seperate fact from fiction.

In my opinion, the guys I get the most useful information (in no particular order)

Zengrifter
Bojack
Sonny
AP
QFIT


There are other that I may be missing (no offense), but these guys always post great information.

 

[Jeff25]

thats right. counting isnt rocket science, getting away with it is the hard part.

This is true. I didn't put near enough effort into cover plays or camo on my first trip to Vegas and I payed for it BIG TIME. I am still a rookie and I made some bad mistakes. 1) Giving my real ID for a players card. 2) Using a large spread. 3) Being greedy and sticking around to long.

I was backed off from 4 casinos, including 2 MGM casinos. These backoffs were harder for me to deal with then the negative varience and long negative flux involved with card counting. Its hard when you train so hard just to be told you cant play anymore. It also sucks to know that I wont be able to play at half the strip casinos again because of stupid mistakes I made so early in my career.