Old player - new counter -will this work?

[leatherguyray]

For anyone who may have actualy knowledge or experience to know, I'd appreciate an answer to the following question:
Is playing Simple Red Sevens (Running count only) combined with the following bet ramp good enough in the game I will describe to cause me to remain, at least slightly, ahead of the losing bracket? Is it reasonably good for a new counter to practice and still hope for modest gain? I can not wong in and out because this small store usually only has one or two tables going, so will this work to play through the negatives?
I play flawless basic strategy - the game is H17 DAS Split any pair up to 4 hands, including aces. One card on an Ace - Insurance 2-1 BJ 3-2 late surrender
Betting: Simple red seven with only the 5 indices recommended by Arnold snyder for the simple system.
Count Bet Bet unit is $5.00
<0 1 unit
0 2 units
2 2 units
4 2 units
6 3 units
8 4 units
12 6 units
16 8 units
This is the bet ramp recommended for casual counters in Arnold's book, so my question is mostly is it good enough, if well applied, to play without wonging? I can probably easily get away with a larger spread especially at this $5.00 level. Would it be advised and is so where would one plug in the additional spread bets? Any sound advice concerning any part of this will be very welcomed.

 

[creeping panther]

ray

I have been a constatnt, small-time player for years. I play flawless basic strategy and alter the strategy when table rules require it.
I have always been a system player, pressing bets both positive and negative for a short distance.
I could tell you that I remain an over-all winner, though a small one at times, but such a statement even though true would only enlist the age old debate.
Despite that I have concluded that counting must be the way to go if I am going to continue to play.
I read Arnold's book Black Belt in Blackjack and others, by the way. But, I have decided to go with Arnold's Simple Red Seven count to begin. I am practicing it daily, as recommended. I am very accurate though still too slow. It won't take too long to overcome that.
I would hope to rely on the advice of, hopefully, some who will truly have a valuable opinion concerning this question:
Remember, I'm using the Simple Red Seven (not true counting - not true edging) My bets are made strictly according to running count.
I will be playing locally in one of two games. They are both 6 deck shoe
One is H17 DAS double any pair and split up to 4 hands including aces
bj 3-2 insurance 2-1 and late surrender. The other game is the same execpt dealer S17 and no surrender. these are small casinos with very few tables in play so backcounting is not very practical, probably.
Now, the direct question: Using the red seven (simple) with the following bet ramp can I be successful enough to be a winner, if only a small one? I am not looking to maxamize at the moment, just want the simple count to have a ramp that will keep me ahead long run as I practice and get comfortaable. I could probably get away with about any spread in these casinos. Here is the one I am considering:
<0 1 unit
0 2 units
1 2 units
2 3 units
3 4 units
4 5 units
5 6 units
6> 8 units

Ok, use that spread to start and if pen is equal play the ls game. Go slow for your first few sessions and know your LS plays for H-17.

As soon as possible switch to Hi-LO balanced.

CP

 

[leatherguyray]

to creeping panther - old player, new counter

Thanks for the reply. A couple of things. What is the abrevation LS for H-17? H 17 I know and I assume you mean the difference in strategy for a hit 17 game. Since you did reply I assume you are familiar with the simple red 7 and are saying that the ramp I propose (if I count and play correctly) should be adequate to keep me ahead of the win lose curve? Thanks again. I have been practicing diligently and even going to a nearby casino to simply watch, count and play in my head as I watch. Pretty good practice, I think.

 

[psyduck]

LS means late surrender in blackjack. Otherwise it means life sucks!

 

[leatherguyray]

old player - new counter -will this work

Thanks for the info . I don't know why LS didn't rattle my goofy gourd.

 

[creeping panther]

Ray

Thanks for the reply. A couple of things. What is the abrevation LS for H-17? H 17 I know and I assume you mean the difference in strategy for a hit 17 game. Since you did reply I assume you are familiar with the simple red 7 and are saying that the ramp I propose (if I count and play correctly) should be adequate to keep me ahead of the win lose curve? Thanks again. I have been practicing diligently and even going to a nearby casino to simply watch, count and play in my head as I watch. Pretty good practice, I think.

Late Surrender,,,Hit-17.

With LS you should do fine as a start, as I said go slow for awhile.

A mate of mine used to use that count, he did well, but his indice plays were not as strong as mine, insurance was not either.

CP

 

[tripsix]

2nd CP's transition to balanced count.

Wish I had both those options in one joint! CP is right.
You're missing some great wonging opportunities not using a balanced count. It's not much harder to start counting at 0 instead of -20. Your already known to watch the game so wonging in at a plus count would be to your advantage w/o drawing heat. Since you have both tables available when the one your playing goes to TC -1 or lower and you lose a hand or two and Wong out.
True counting seems a little daunting at first, but you've seen how high the cards in the discard tray are at the end of a shoe. You can easily estimate half of that right? Probably a third of that too. Half of that third is one deck! Estimate downward to the nearest deck, divide and forget about the fractions (floor.)
IMHO you're giving up a large amount of ev not wonging in with a balanced count and wonging out between the two tables on negative counts, it's a shame. :cry:
Besides, wandering over to the other table, after losing a hand or two, wouldn't be questioned by anyone. Even might look more like a ploppy. If you feel heat, drop 1 bet on a table in between the two.

Hope this helps

 

[leatherguyray]

Thanks for your input. Here are a couple of things to clarify. Both the games I mentioned are not in the same store. They are 50 miles apart, but both close enough to me that I can play either ... or both. I would very much like to wong in and out, however, being a novice I would have thought one would need a large store with many tables to do that without drawing a great deal of attention. Either of these places I play locally have a max of three tables in operation at any given time and often early in the day they may very well have only one.
From what I have been able to decide after reading book after book and article after article is that Red Sevens is probably going to be one of the better level one systems for shoe games. sure, at the simple level it is only touted to achieve 80 of the hi lo benifits, but for a beginning counter the ease of operation with the prospects in place to upgrade the sevens count later, I just like it for now. I can convert the true count in red sevens at any time or I can true edge it as outlined in Arnold's book. I have chosen to stay simple to begin with for ease of getting practiced and comfortable counting in the store environment. I don't even necessarily want the absolute, best or most powerful system available ... not now for sure. I want ease of operation and simplicity for a while until I become proficient. but, I do want to use one that will break me even or make a buck or two. I'll be content with that as I practice. Concerning wong in and wong out. I can do that with the red seven if the environment is ok to do so. I can true count red seven right now and by doing so all the lititure I have read says it outperforms hi lo. I can wong in at true count of two and use a 4-1 spread. I have good information on that, BUT if I do have to play through the negatives I'd like to do it simple and with a spread that may have a good chance of earning a very modest gain. Thanks again and I'll appreciate anyting you may add.