Opinions Required on AP Move

[callipygian]

The casino takes advantage of my error when I hit a stiff and bust, so fairs fair!

That's not an error. An error is when the dealer miscounts your 21 as 22 and scoops up your bet - a pit boss is then required to authorize giving back your money.

In actual fact, its the casino that is breaking the rules by not giving the option to hit, stand, etc?

Yes, but it's their own rule, so you need to tread carefully. Remember, you're talking about intentionally taking advantage of a misplay - if you do it more than once, you're going to be on the radar. Do it multiple times, and they'll suspect you of cheating.

Whether you are breaking a law or not, the casino doesn't need to prove that you're cheating before they backroom you and confiscate your chips. They just need to prove they have reasonable suspicion that you're cheating. Even if you're cleared, you will spend a few hours being questioned by the police and a few days trying to get your chips back.

If you successfully pull this move off multiple times without heat, let me know.

 

[HarryKuntz]

That's not an error. An error is when the dealer miscounts your 21 as 22 and scoops up your bet - a pit boss is then required to authorize giving back your money.

I was joking about busting being an error. However, I'm sure your example of chips being taken is overlooked sometimes by casino staff when nobody else has noticed, especially when high stakes are involved.

Yes, but it's their own rule, so you need to tread carefully. Remember, you're talking about intentionally taking advantage of a misplay - if you do it more than once, you're going to be on the radar. Do it multiple times, and they'll suspect you of cheating.

AP is taking advantage of weakness, whether it be, weak shuffles, deep pen, good rules, sloppy dealers, mis-payouts, etc. etc. CC is also taking advantage of a weakness of the game. This is no different. I agree with you, that this move should not be played very often and used with caution as it will remembered by the dealer, especially if they left looking or feeling stupid. It's all about timing and if played correctly has a high +EV! This move is no more cheating than other CC or AP moves.

Whether you are breaking a law or not, the casino doesn't need to prove that you're cheating before they backroom you and confiscate your chips. They just need to prove they have reasonable suspicion that you're cheating. Even if you're cleared, you will spend a few hours being questioned by the police and a few days trying to get your chips back.

Not where I live. It is illegal for the casinos to confiscate chips, the police would have to arrest you and then they could take them. As for backrooming, the casino has no right to even hold you until the police arrive -this is illegal imprisonment here. Without evidence of cheating the police won't charge you and the chips would be returned straight away. The laws here are very sketchy about cheating anyway, even about things like using computers. It really needs to be viewed as stealing before much is done. If the police did decided to charge you with a crime, then they could keep the chips for 1-4 weeks while the prosecution service decides whether or not to take you to court. If it went to court the chips would be held as evidence until the case was over and then they returned to their rightful owner. In this case, I risked getting backed off but its very unlikely I would have lost any chips.

If you successfully pull this move off multiple times without heat, let me know

This particular casino has many weakness too exploit due to very inexperienced dealers, I see something new nearly every time I visit. I won't be pulling this trick here again for a while. if I get the opportunity elsewhere, I'll let you know what happens.