path to AP

[kewljason]

In reading our friend Aslan's, recent “giving it a rest” post, as well as several new posts detailing his recent 'gambling' outing, I find myself thinking about how AP's get to the AP point. I have come to the conclusion that there are two paths and that has inspired a poll, just out of curiosity.

One is a player such as myself that has absolutely no interest in negative EV play. I never played blackjack as a “ploppie”, nor play any other negative EV casino game for the purpose of enjoyment. There is the little bit of gray area of playing other games in a very limited and pre-determined amount for cover and generating comps and cash offers. These actions still rest on the AP side of the line.

The second path is of a recreational type gambler (ploppie) that at some point, tired of losing and learned and attempted the cross in AP territory. I suspect many of this type struggle with AP success, straddling the AP fence, while some negative EV play at other games, (maybe VP, roulette or craps) eat away or eliminate any profits from advantage play. I suspect the failure rate among this group is high.

These thoughts were inspired by Aslan's situation and recent decision. I find it highly unusual that someone volunarily made the choice to retreat back over the line after aquiring AP knowledge, but I am in no way judging or criticizing where he is at. He is apparently more interested in enjoyment at this particular time and found counting not so enjoyable. That I can relate to, so power to him.

So just two choices for the poll. Seems pretty cut and dry. Where you a ploppy type gambler prior to AP play or did you get into blackjack strictly for AP purposes. I would love to break down choice number one based on success, but I don't think the results would be that accurate as most who failed are probably no longer members of this site.

 

[Midwestern]

in the spirit of your question, i have to say that i only played AP blackjack. i.e. i will not sit down at a game unless i know exactly how to play it properly. Anything less and you are just throwing money away. This counts for carny games and other forms of gambling as well.

don't get me wrong. I like to have fun playing games of chance! Explains part of my horseracing hobby. but when i play, i dont bring a BR that i " INTEND" to lose.

 

[ohbehave]

Its funny for me to think of my early days because I started with a progression system. And I was winning pretty big for red chip tables and making the crazy bets that a progression calls for. I was oblivious to heat but looking back I can't remember anything resembling heat at the time. But I can imagine I was getting skills checks every place I played. Of course once they determined I'm using a progression there wasn't much need for backing me off. :laugh: I do wonder if my early progression days helped buy me some time at some of the stores.

 

[Dyepaintball12]

Started as a ploppy, read Bringing Down the House, never looked back.

 

[Severity8]

Dad told me when I was a kid intelligent men could count cards and beat the house. They idea of being an underdog with an advantage appealed to the rebellious side of me, found BJINFO in my self education process and what do ya know here sits a collective round table of intelligent men and women. Guess dad was right after all!

 

[johndoe]

Pretty much strictly AP, aside from a very rare bet "socially" long ago (i.e. $5 once, mostly I would watch). I always thought gambling was a pretty unappealing form of entertainment.

Years ago my gal showed me the rudiments of counting, and I took to it quickly, enjoyed it, and did well. Since then it's been AP development all the way.

 

[The Chaperone]

Most of the successful APs I know were never ploppies. I know a few middling APs who had long ploppy 'careers' prior to getting into AP and most of them are broke half the time.

 

[MangoJ]

I came the route from sports betting and online casino. Now I'm sharpening my teeth for a third AP leg: blackjack.

 

[moo321]

I learned poker and learned blackjack initially from online bonuses.

 

[Most Interesting Man]

AP from the beginning but the first few games were played without advantage just to learn how to handle the environment before betting big.

 

[lovethespaniard]

Superstitious gambling ploppy to AP here. I am educable. (Yeah, that's a word)

 

[mjbballar23]

im surprised it isnt more highly skewed toward "AP player from the beginning." Ive tried to teach ploppies in the past and they just cant seem to do it. They always go back to their old ways.

 

[forwhat77]

The first time I entered a casino it was for entertainment purposes. My brother was visiting me in a small town in the midwest and there was nothing better to do. My girlfriend insisted that I take him to the casino since it was just opening. He, who is a ploppy, sat down at the blackjack table so I decided to give it a try. I made 70 dollars from a 20 dollar buy-in and was hooked. I found this site a week later. A month later the movie 21 came out. I new before then that the way they made money in the movie was Hollywood style, but the game still intrigued me. I have not had a successful year as of yet, but I have been bldg. my roll for the last 18 months, living here in Vegas and working, playing low-limits. This is the first year that I have showed a very small profit, and I have learned soooooo much from you all and observations out here in Vegas.

So to answer your question, I guess I started out as a wanna-be ap, and am still in the start-up phase bldg. my roll enough to green chip. Thankfully, I am almost at my point and look forward to hitting some of the better games that exist on the strip.

 

[SleightOfHand]

I went to a casino for the first time when I was 17 and played Three Card Poker with a friend at Turning Stone. I didn't know what I was doing, but lucky me, I hit 3 straight flushes while playing the pair plus and made $700 betting table min. The next time, I was playing BJ out of the country and decided I wanted to learn how to play, as I realized I didn't know what I was doing. I eventually landed on WoO, and as I was reading through the BJ content, I found a little link to CC and was hooked ever since

 

[zengrifter]

Having been orientated to be an AP and never played much ploppy-wise, its
been my experience that most ploppies who really try to AP never quite get it. zg

"You can take the player out of ploppy land, but you can't take the ploppy out of the player."​

 

[Lonesome Gambler]

They always go back to their old ways.

I think there's a lot of truth in this statement. I think being a successful AP requires the possession and absence of various personality traits. I also think that APs that gamble "for fun" are almost always going to be recreational players, at best. That's not a criticism, mind you—I just think that the type of player that can "turn off" to play a few hands of a strictly -EV game are not the type that will be able to thrive in today's playing climate.

Side note: this probably doesn't apply to high-stakes poker pros, who all appear to be massive degenerates!

 

[metronome]

Never set foot in a casino before. In my late forties (real late) a gentleman who worked for me gave me Lawrence Reveres' book. My curiosity piqued, I started studying the game.

 

[FLASH1296]

I was a pathological gambler for the 1st half of my life.

 

[Freightman]

So just two choices for the poll. Seems pretty cut and dry. Where you a ploppy type gambler prior to AP play or did you get into blackjack strictly for AP purposes

KewlJason

I have not answered, as I am not sure exactly how to answer. I started to play to squire around my father, who loved to play craps and blackjack, but was forced to give up driving in his later years. It bugged me that it cost me money to essentially be his chauffeur. It did not take me long to hear about counting, researched the topic and went from there.

BTW - would not give up those memories for anything.

 

[metronome]

Flash1296,
As analytical as you appear to be, I find that somewhat surprising. However the many ways that humans become exposed, aware and ultimately interested in any given endeavor probably rivals the number of stars in the sky.