Pissed After Tonight

[TakingTheHouse]

I was going to blog about it on my blog (Archive copy), but I figured I'd get more of a response here.

I just read through the first half of Blackjack Bluebook II, just got done with the chapter on the A/10 count. I read it over once and did no practicing, and didn't plan on putting it to use tonight when I went to the casino (just wanted to go play BS with my friend for a bit and have some fun).

We walked around the tables for 25 minutes at Fallsview in Ontario, and waited behind some for 10-15 minutes and couldn't find an opening anywhere. Finally we get an opening at a table that was just starting a brand new shoe (they use automatic shufflers and rotate 2 shoes). So I sit down and thought "New shoe...all I have to do is count the 10's and Aces in the first 2 decks. I know if it's under 35 it's going to be pretty good, and over 35 probably not that good. I don't know the exact betting scheme, but we'll just at least see what the count is."

The table is a $25 min and I bought in for $500. The first 8 hands in a row I lose which really sucked, but didn't phase me at all because I only counted ELEVEN 10's/Aces in the first 2 decks. My eyes lit up and I started betting $50. The cards still seemed crappy and I kept losing over and over. I lost 14 of the first 15 hands. I have about $150 left and when all was said and done, there were 8 ACES on the board at ONE TIME. One guy drew 5 aces! I of course didn't get any, I almost always started with a 13 or 14. The couple times I snagged a 20, I'd push. The deck started soooo cold, and it was weird that it just never seemed to heat up at one point at all. Everybody was losing almost every hand.

I ran out of money just as the shoe ended. I won 2 hands the entire shoe after only 11 A/10's came out of the first 2 decks.

Bad beats suck! /end rant

 

[creeping panther]

Taking

I was going to blog about it on my blog (Archive copy), but I figured I'd get more of a response here.

I just read through the first half of Blackjack Bluebook II, just got done with the chapter on the A/10 count. I read it over once and did no practicing, and didn't plan on putting it to use tonight when I went to the casino (just wanted to go play BS with my friend for a bit and have some fun).

We walked around the tables for 25 minutes at Fallsview in Ontario, and waited behind some for 10-15 minutes and couldn't find an opening anywhere. Finally we get an opening at a table that was just starting a brand new shoe (they use automatic shufflers and rotate 2 shoes). So I sit down and thought "New shoe...all I have to do is count the 10's and Aces in the first 2 decks. I know if it's under 35 it's going to be pretty good, and over 35 probably not that good. I don't know the exact betting scheme, but we'll just at least see what the count is."

The table is a $25 min and I bought in for $500. The first 8 hands in a row I lose which really sucked, but didn't phase me at all because I only counted ELEVEN 10's/Aces in the first 2 decks. My eyes lit up and I started betting $50. The cards still seemed crappy and I kept losing over and over. I lost 14 of the first 15 hands. I have about $150 left and when all was said and done, there were 8 ACES on the board at ONE TIME. One guy drew 5 aces! I of course didn't get any, I almost always started with a 13 or 14. The couple times I snagged a 20, I'd push. The deck started soooo cold, and it was weird that it just never seemed to heat up at one point at all. Everybody was losing almost every hand.

I ran out of money just as the shoe ended. I won 2 hands the entire shoe after only 11 A/10's came out of the first 2 decks.

Bad beats suck! /end rant

I cannot figure out why you are taking good money and throwing it at totally TRASH games

Start thinking like a "BJ Warrior"......get it together and attack

CP

 

[standard toaster]

I cannot figure out why you are taking good money and throwing it at totally TRASH games

Start thinking like a "BJ Warrior"......get it together and attack

CP

I believe he dosent have much of a choice. He is only 20 and has to go to canada for his games.

 

[FLASH1296]

I understand that you are completely inexperienced.

You must not be headstrong.

Before putting your money at risk you have months of study and practice
ahead of you. That is, unless you want to gamble.
Something that I hope that you want to stop doing.

You read a questionable book, and not even completely.

(In all fairness the "Mentor Count" in that book is rather good.)

You chose a very WEAK count to monitor a poorly cut eight deck shoe game.

You had to go to a property that offers a poor game.

You attempted to attack a $25 game with just 20 units.

Your "Risk of Ruin" was about 49% I am fairly sure.

What you do not know is that these factors conspired to create a situation
where you were more likely to lose than to win, albeit by a small margin.

Note that losing almost every hand, as you did, is not unusual.

Read Arnold Snyder's "Blackbelt in Blackjack" -- a highly recommended book for novices.

 

[TakingTheHouse]

Yeah I know I definitely do not want to just gamble, but as you said I do know I have months of practice ahead before I'm truly ready to go expecting to come out on top. And I love being at the casino and love playing blackjack, so it's hard to say no when my friends want to go.

Thanks for the book recommendation, I've been searching around for the best beginner books to read and the best counting method to go with (something I'm still stuck on).

I understand that you are completely inexperienced.

You must not be headstrong.

Before putting your money at risk you have months of study and practice
ahead of you. That is, unless you want to gamble.
Something that I hope that you want to stop doing.

You read a questionable book, and not even completely.

(In all fairness the "Mentor Count" in that book is rather good.)

You chose a very WEAK count to monitor a poorly cut eight deck shoe game.

You had to go to a property that offers a poor game.

You attempted to attack a $25 game with just 20 units.

Your "Risk of Ruin" was about 49% I am fairly sure.

What you do not know is that these factors conspired to create a situation
where you were more likely to lose than to win, albeit by a small margin.

Note that losing almost every hand, as you did, is not unusual.

Read Arnold Snyder's "Blackbelt in Blackjack" -- a highly recommended book for novices.

 

[SystemsTrader]

Yeah I know I definitely do not want to just gamble, but as you said I do know I have months of practice ahead before I'm truly ready to go expecting to come out on top. And I love being at the casino and love playing blackjack, so it's hard to say no when my friends want to go.

Thanks for the book recommendation, I've been searching around for the best beginner books to read and the best counting method to go with (something I'm still stuck on).

You are young and gung ho which is good but at this point you lack discipline. If you are serious about being an AP you won't play these bad games. There is a $5 min game in your area if you must play. (PM for details if you want). Don't get suckered in to playing those expensive $25 games.

As for a counting system I would recommend either Hi-Lo or KO. Try practising with both then go with the one you like better. I said in another post to you about getting some practise software instead of playing live in the casinos, I still recommend that software, if you are going to take this seriously you will have to spend some upfront money which is still cheaper then going to the casino and being a ploppy.

 

[TakingTheHouse]

You are young and gung ho which is good but at this point you lack discipline. If you are serious about being an AP you won't play these bad games. There is a $5 min game in your area if you must play. (PM for details if you want). Don't get suckered in to playing those expensive $25 games.

Good thing I didn't do what I truly wanted to do...buy in with $1,000 and just play 10 black haha. Not with any hopes to win (which I guess is pretty foolish), just for the experience of betting $100/hand. But I know that will come soon enough, and not in a foolish manner.

As for a counting system I would recommend either Hi-Lo or KO. Try practising with both then go with the one you like better. I said in another post to you about getting some practise software instead of playing live in the casinos, I still recommend that software, if you are going to take this seriously you will have to spend some upfront money which is still cheaper then going to the casino and being a ploppy.

I have barely read on it, but if I'm right the Hi-Lo uses a True count and the KO just uses a running count. Seemingly making the KO easier, but is it less efficient? What if I play crappy games in Ontario before I turn 21 (in May so it's a ways away) that are 8-deck. Would using a True count be more efficient here? Also I've read there is more than one type of Hi-Lo counting system.

 

[EasyRhino]

Okay, here's the things that you need to focus on:

1) I don't recommend the A/10 count if you want to have a serious profit expectation, unless you have an infinite bankroll. It's too weak, and the fluctuations are too high.

2) You can't beat ANY game with a 2-1 spread (using ANY count). If you only have a couple hundred bucks, you need to only play during positive counts. It's boring, but it's truth.

3) "Practicing" at a casino by playing a losing game is just wasting money. Practice at home. Get the mechanics of counting and bet sizing down before you try again.

Yeah I know I definitely do not want to just gamble

And I love being at the casino and love playing blackjack, so it's hard to say no when my friends want to go.

Please reconcile those two statements.

 

[TakingTheHouse]

All right all right! No more casino play for a few months then probably. I'm still up about $500 from playing basic, so we'll just leave it at that and call it a fun experience.

 

[FLASH1296]

My suggestion is for you to get Snyder's book and read it; but go with "ZEN"

That way you will not spend forever whether or not you should have learned a strong count.

 

[sagefr0g]

gambling

All right all right! No more casino play for a few months then probably. I'm still up about $500 from playing basic, so we'll just leave it at that and call it a fun experience.

all right kid. i'm gonna give you the straight dope. your young and full of beans and vinegar and thats a valuable asset. so don't squander it you lucky dog.
now if you have even a clue of what i just told you then the same thing goes for your money.
i read through some of the posts that have been generated as a result of your inquiries and statements. all the guys that responded and others floating around on this site are smart as whips. they really understand this maths probability stuff and all. some of them could probably create and build a space shuttle to mars and back if they wanted to. me, i couldn't hold a candle to any of them. just one thing i think i know that maybe some of them don't.
i'm gonna let you in on a little secret. it took me over three years to figure this out. so listen up.
it's gambling that we are up to here, son. pure and simple, thats the truth of the matter.

 

[ccibball50]

Sd

Okay, here's the things that you need to focus on:

2) You can't beat ANY game with a 2-1 spread (using ANY count). If you only have a couple hundred bucks, you need to only play during positive counts. It's boring, but it's truth.


Please reconcile those two statements.

I disagree with that statement. I have posted information on a game that was beatable with 75% penetration in single deck with no spread.

You would only make pennies on the hour, but a 2-1 spread would make decent money. Besides it was either Snyder or Wong (I cant remember who exactly, but it was in one of their books) says HILO with 80 inexes is about a 1% games if the SD games has good rules.

 

[ccibball50]

Good Advice

My suggestion is for you to get Snyder's book and read it; but go with "ZEN"

That way you will not spend forever whether or not you should have learned a strong count.

This is wonderful advise. I am currently in the process of deciding if I should move up in count. And if so which count? I liked UBZ11, but cant find enough info on it. I probably will just go with Zen.

 

[Martin Gayle]

Good thing I didn't do what I truly wanted to do...buy in with $1,000 and just play 10 black haha. Not with any hopes to win (which I guess is pretty foolish), just for the experience of betting $100/hand. But I know that will come soon enough, and not in a foolish manner.

Betting you whole stack isn't that bad of an idea...this would have been a better approach to the game than what you did do. You have almost 50/50 of doubling your money whereas you have an increasingly diminishing chance of doubling your money by playing more and more hands using basic strategy.

All looking to move up to a level 2 count (mind you I don't consider ace/5 or ace/10 counts a viable count system) take FLASH's advice and use ZEN. A hi-lo player will notice the improved playing efficency immediately. Also, ZEN is really good for most games, with reasonable pen and knowing many ZEN indexes, you should be able to beat a single deck game with a 2-1 spread, the PE is just that strong.

 

[gibsonlp33stl]

Do you guys have a good book you recommend for learning Zen?

 

[vingtetun]

Answer

Blackbelt in Blackjack by Arnold Snyder. However, in the updated version do not use the new indexes. Use the old indexes, they've been linked on here a million times, look for them. Also, Mentor seems to be pretty equal to Zen to me.