POLL: What card counting system do you use?

What counting system do you use?

  • Hi-Lo

    Votes: 55 36.2%

  • Hi-Opt I, II

    Votes: 8 5.3%

  • KISS I,II, III

    Votes: 17 11.2%

  • KO

    Votes: 25 16.4%

  • Mentor

    Votes: 3 2.0%

  • Red Seven

    Votes: 13 8.6%

  • Omega II

    Votes: 3 2.0%

  • Zen

    Votes: 15 9.9%

  • Halves

    Votes: 5 3.3%

  • Other

    Votes: 8 5.3%
  • Total voters
    152
B

BJinNJ

Well-Known Member
#61
#61
Not sure if I'm the right one to offer advice, as I've only
been to a casino once, since taking up AP blackjack.

I've thought of a few different ways to remember the RC.
Use a stack, or two, of chips. Use a couple rings and change
the fingers they're on to record the RC. Keep some coins in
one pocket and move them to another pocket. A dime, a nickel
and five pennies could keep a RC up to +/- 20, depending on
the pocket they're in. Use chewing gum and keep it on the number
of the tooth of the RC. (yes, teeth are numbered by dentists 1-32)

Hey, I like that last idea!

BJinNJ :cool:
 
ChefJJ

ChefJJ

Well-Known Member
#62
#62
I just use my chips as somewhat like an abacus. Of course, the way I collect and stack my chips lends itself to a look of disorder...which I think is necessary to hide what I'm doing (at least I think it does :devil: )

Whatever you do to keep count, just don't "concentrate" on it.

good luck
 
aslan

aslan

Well-Known Member
#63
#63
BJinNJ said:
Not sure if I'm the right one to offer advice, as I've only
been to a casino once, since taking up AP blackjack.

I've thought of a few different ways to remember the RC.
Use a stack, or two, of chips. Use a couple rings and change
the fingers they're on to record the RC. Keep some coins in
one pocket and move them to another pocket. A dime, a nickel
and five pennies could keep a RC up to +/- 20, depending on
the pocket they're in. Use chewing gum and keep it on the number
of the tooth of the RC. (yes, teeth are numbered by dentists 1-32)

Hey, I like that last idea!

I'm sure you'll come up with better ideas.

BJinNJ :cool:
Click to expand...
I am mainly looking for mind tricks. I have used physical objects, like placing a chip in different positions on my club card, or by certain arrangements of my chips, but I'd rather not use props. Anyone else got any ideas?

BTW, where do you play? AC I presume. What casino?
 
aslan

aslan

Well-Known Member
#64
#64
ChefJJ said:
I just use my chips as somewhat like an abacus. Of course, the way I collect and stack my chips lends itself to a look of disorder...which I think is necessary to hide what I'm doing (at least I think it does :devil: )

Whatever you do to keep count, just don't "concentrate" on it.

good luck
Click to expand...
That last sentence is a little cryptic. What do you mean?

When I count, sometimes I don't even watch the deal. Sometimes I look at the board after the deal with several players and find all the "cancel outs" and then count the few remaining cards. When you're "on" you can see the count with little effort. Also, I try to exhibit the same level of overt concentration even after the need for counting has passed, for example, if the cut card comes out and I bust, I still maintain the same seeming concentration on the game as before when I needed to count. Otherwise, the change in behavior would be a tip off to the eye in the sky (eits). Not that they even pay attention to my low level of play, but just in case they do, or just to build good habits that will follow me into more pricey play. I also practice talking to dealers, other players and the pit bosses just to practice my ability to handle distraction and still keep the count.
 
jack.jackson

jack.jackson

Well-Known Member
#65
#65
aslan said:
I am mainly looking for mind tricks. I have used physical objects, like placing a chip in different positions on my club card, or by certain arrangements of my chips, but I'd rather not use props. Anyone else got any ideas?

BTW, where do you play? AC I presume. What casino?
Click to expand...
I am mainly looking for mind tricks.
Click to expand...

I really dont see objects or props as viable alternatives. To messy.

The best way is to allow your subconscious to speak to you and have a pattern of visual. You must have the ability to focus and concentrate. In paractice, this will become second nature. I know everybody's different, but I know its common practice to visualize it in a horizontal grid, with the negative on the left and the positive on the right.

My mind speaks the negative numbers, while it only speaks the positive number as the number independently. As far as the visual goes, it alsmot like a complete black background with a white grid with white numbers.

Like this, but in a Black background, with white numbers.

-7--(-5)--(-1)--0--3--4--5--8
 
Last edited:
ChefJJ

ChefJJ

Well-Known Member
#66
#66
aslan said:
That last sentence is a little cryptic. What do you mean?

When I count, sometimes I don't even watch the deal. Sometimes I look at the board after the deal with several players and find all the "cancel outs" and then count the few remaining cards. When you're "on" you can see the count with little effort. Also, I try to exhibit the same level of overt concentration even after the need for counting has passed, for example, if the cut card comes out and I bust, I still maintain the same seeming concentration on the game as before when I needed to count. Otherwise, the change in behavior would be a tip off to the eye in the sky (eits). Not that they even pay attention to my low level of play, but just in case they do, or just to build good habits that will follow me into more pricey play. I also practice talking to dealers, other players and the pit bosses just to practice my ability to handle distraction and still keep the count.
Click to expand...
I mean pretty much what you've described :grin:
 
aslan

aslan

Well-Known Member
#67
#67
jack said:
I really dont see objects or props as viable alternatives. To messy.

The best way is to allow your subconscious to speak to you and have a pattern of visual. You must have the ability to focus and concentrate. In paractice, this will become second nature. I know everybody's different, but I know its common practice to visualize it in a horizontal grid, with the negative on the left and the positive on the right.

My mind speaks the negative numbers, while it only speaks the positive number as the number independently. As far as the visual goes, it alsmot like a complete black background with a white grid with white numbers.

Like this, but in a Black background, with white numbers.

-7--(-5)--(-1)--0--3--4--5--8
Click to expand...
Yes, I understand all that, but what I am taking about is what do you do when there is a long distraction, say, they interrupt the game to replenish the house bank and while they are doing so the pit boss whom you know comes over and starts a chat. How do you remember what the RC was? My current practice is to visualize the RC as a large physical number in 3-d as if it were an object. It helps somehow to burn it into my memory so that I can take my attention away from it and it is still there when I return my attention to it. Do you have a practice for these situations?
 
Automatic Monkey

Automatic Monkey

Banned
#68
#68
Chisanbop

aslan said:
Yes, I understand all that, but what I am taking about is what do you do when there is a long distraction, say, they interrupt the game to replenish the house bank and while they are doing so the pit boss whom you know comes over and starts a chat. How do you remember what the RC was? My current practice is to visualize the RC as a large physical number in 3-d as if it were an object. It helps somehow to burn it into my memory so that I can take my attention away from it and it is still there when I return my attention to it. Do you have a practice for these situations?
Click to expand...
Chisanbop is an Asian way of doing math with fingers. Right digits are 1, right thumb is 5, left digits are 10, left thumb is 50. You can represent any number from 0 to 99 that way and there are procedures for doing all kinds of arithmetic. An easy way to physically represent a number or transmit it to another AP.
 
ChefJJ

ChefJJ

Well-Known Member
#69
#69
Automatic Monkey said:
Chisanbop is an Asian way of doing math with fingers. Right digits are 1, right thumb is 5, left digits are 10, left thumb is 50. You can represent any number from 0 to 99 that way and there are procedures for doing all kinds of arithmetic. An easy way to physically represent a number or transmit it to another AP.
Click to expand...
Beautiful.
 
aslan

aslan

Well-Known Member
#70
#70
Automatic Monkey said:
Chisanbop is an Asian way of doing math with fingers. Right digits are 1, right thumb is 5, left digits are 10, left thumb is 50. You can represent any number from 0 to 99 that way and there are procedures for doing all kinds of arithmetic. An easy way to physically represent a number or transmit it to another AP.
Click to expand...
Simplicity itself. Takes 5 minutes to master. Since I use 100 as my zero reference to avoid negative numbers, I will simply change to single digits above 100. Thanks.
 
jack.jackson

jack.jackson

Well-Known Member
#71
#71
aslan said:
Yes, I understand all that, but what I am taking about is what do you do when there is a long distraction, say, they interrupt the game to replenish the house bank and while they are doing so the pit boss whom you know comes over and starts a chat. How do you remember what the RC was? My current practice is to visualize the RC as a large physical number in 3-d as if it were an object. It helps somehow to burn it into my memory so that I can take my attention away from it and it is still there when I return my attention to it. Do you have a practice for these situations?
Click to expand...
Never really thought about it that much, since most of my practive has been at home. When I would get a knock on the door or a phone call or something, I would just simply write it down. At the Casino, during long pauses of the game, the only thing I can think of are chips. Sometimes, when I say the count to myself 2 or 3 times I usually have no problem re-calling it from where I left off. I'll keep thinking about it and if I come up with something I'll let you know.:)
 
2

21forme

Well-Known Member
#72
#72
jack said:
Never really thought about it that much, since most of my practive has been at home. When I would get a knock on the door or a phone call or something, I would just simply write it down. At the Casino, during long pauses of the game, the only thing I can think of are chips. Sometimes, when I say the count to myself 2 or 3 times I usually have no problem re-calling it from where I left off. I'll keep thinking about it and if I come up with something I'll let you know.:)
Click to expand...
I just play with my chips and slightly offset a small stack on the top to remind me.
 
2

21forme

Well-Known Member
#74
#74
aslan said:
And if the count is -19? (besides wonging out lol)
Click to expand...
You're right. I would never be in that situation!

However, there are 2 options for a double digit count. One is to simply remember the tens digit. The other is use another pile of chips. For example if your count is +12, offset 1 black chip and 2 green chips.
 
Warlord

Warlord

Well-Known Member
#75
#75
SPX said:
A. My bad. Warlord mentioned it and no one said anything so. . . Wait, DO we have this poll going or DID we have this poll going? I went back several pages and didn't see anything.

B. What's an open poll?

I'm waiting to see if anyone uses Mentor. . .
Click to expand...

Do you use Mentor SPX ?

Who is the "one" ? why are there not more? is it newer?

I am learning it now before I get to comfortable with HiLo.

I wish I started with a level II right off the bat. I have spent a ton of time learning HiLo and indices, but I think once I can use Mentor competently I will be better off.

I am looking for more literature on Mentor. I have Bluebook which is keeping me busy and probably has all I need but are there other books etc for my mentor arsenal?

thanks
 
B

BJinNJ

Well-Known Member
#76
#76
Bluebook II is the only reference for Mentor count, as far as I know.

There is a list of 100 potential count systems at:

http://www.blackjackforumonline.com/content/hundred.htm

Number 45 on the list is Mentor. That is the only other reference
I've seen.

Just because few other people have yet to learn Mentor, does
not mean that it won't work. There are a limited number of people
that can even attempt to count cards, and not all of them succeed.
Even fewer can handle level 2 counts, or higher.

You're one of the first to learn this simple level 2 count. Mr. Renzey
put in the time and effort to develope the indices for his book. There
is no reason to believe Mentor doesn't work. Take the info, put it
into practice and...

Let us know how it works out for you!

BJinNJ :cool:
 
R

rukus

Well-Known Member
#77
#77
BJinNJ said:
Bluebook II is the only reference for Mentor count, as far as I know.

There is a list of 100 potential count systems at:

http://www.blackjackforumonline.com/content/hundred.htm

Number 45 on the list is Mentor. That is the only other reference
I've seen.

Just because few other people have yet to learn Mentor, does
not mean that it won't work. There are a limited number of people
that can even attempt to count cards, and not all of them succeed.
Even fewer can handle level 2 counts, or higher.

You're one of the first to learn this simple level 2 count. Mr. Renzey
put in the time and effort to develope the indices for his book. There
is no reason to believe Mentor doesn't work. Take the info, put it
into practice and...

Let us know how it works out for you!

BJinNJ :cool:
Click to expand...
your other resource available is the greatest one of all - Fred consistently replies to questions asked of him at this site!
 
Warlord

Warlord

Well-Known Member
#78
#78
BJinNJ said:
Bluebook II is the only reference for Mentor count, as far as I know.

There is a list of 100 potential count systems at:

http://www.blackjackforumonline.com/content/hundred.htm

Number 45 on the list is Mentor. That is the only other reference
I've seen.

Just because few other people have yet to learn Mentor, does
not mean that it won't work. There are a limited number of people
that can even attempt to count cards, and not all of them succeed.
Even fewer can handle level 2 counts, or higher.

You're one of the first to learn this simple level 2 count. Mr. Renzey
put in the time and effort to develope the indices for his book. There
is no reason to believe Mentor doesn't work. Take the info, put it
into practice and...

Let us know how it works out for you!

BJinNJ :cool:
Click to expand...

I am aborting Mentor. I have a lot of time in HiLo and I am getting good with it. In the time it would take me to get decent with Mentor i think I could master HiLo and have a great quiver of camo plays (talking to others etc).

I like to play alot of hours and do a lot of talking to the waitresses and everyone that I can. I am getting good at doing all of this with HiLo but when the cards are coming fast it gets tough(but easier all the time).

I think with Mentor that I would have trouble lasting long hours and at the same time doing all the camo chatting and TV viewing that I do.

I am sure that I could get Mentor down to where I can count fast and effortlessly, but it would take a very long time and even then i think it would be hard to maintain when fatigued.

Hats off to those that can use a LII system accurately and for hours on end.

cheers
 
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