Question of banning?

[blackchipjim]

Evening gentlemen, I was just posing the question to find out if anyone has talked their way out of being asked to leave. I think it would be highly unlikely to be able to but wondered if someone was successfull at it. If you did how you did it and some of your lame excuses would be great. thanks blackchipjim

 

[whatsthedeal]

blackchipjim..... who are you

 

[KenSmith]

Once that decision has been made upstairs, you're wasting your effort talking to the pit person about it. I made the mistake once of making light of a back-off, and asking the floor guy if he would comp me a lunch buffet on my way out. Later that day, a fax flyer went out to other casinos with my photo. I've always wondered if that would have happened if I had just taken my chips and left without protesting my back-off.

 

[mdlbj]

As Ken has pointed out, it is to risky to try to argue with them. If you even think you are being looked at by casino staff, grab your chips and leave.

At the Orleans a few weeks ago, there was a great double deck game being offered. I made it through about 3 shuffles and I noticed the size of the pit crew had grown and there were a few people looking at my table. Picked up my chips and Sat at the bar.

The action was great but, I would rather live to play another day.

 

[Renzey]

While playing at a Vegas strip casino, I asked if I had enough rating for my wife and I to see the main show in their auditiorium. They said at my bets, I needed about another hour of play, so I stayed another hour while my wife went shopping. At the end of the hour, a suit showed up behind me and said that while rating me, they decided it would be best if I didn't play blackjack there anymore -- but -- "here are your two tickets to the show".

Four years later, I was backed off from an affiliate casino after they cited the fact that I "had a little problem down the street a while back".

 

[EasyRhino]

On my first an so far only back-off (not banning), I was able to successfully get a breakfast comp from the floorman.

It was, however, me asking for the comp in the first place which was the immediate trigger for my backoff.

 

[Greasy John]

So do you consider...

As Ken has pointed out, it is to risky to try to argue with them. If you even think you are being looked at by casino staff, grab your chips and leave.

At the Orleans a few weeks ago, there was a great double deck game being offered. I made it through about 3 shuffles and I noticed the size of the pit crew had grown and there were a few people looking at my table. Picked up my chips and Sat at the bar.

The action was great but, I would rather live to play another day.

the Orleans to be a little sweaty?

 

[ihate17]

arguing with the messenger boy

Unless you actually know that the suit behind you is the shift manager, you are most likely arguing with someone who does not have the power to change the decision that has been made about your play. If it is a smooth backoff, they give you a comp, tell you about all their brand new penny machines or whatever, all you can do by fighting with the guy delivering the message is make things worse.

ihate17

 

[tribute]

Unless you actually know that the suit behind you is the shift manager, you are most likely arguing with someone who does not have the power to change the decision that has been made about your play. If it is a smooth backoff, they give you a comp, tell you about all their brand new penny machines or whatever, all you can do by fighting with the guy delivering the message is make things worse.

In this situation, are you comfortable returning on a different day, different shift?

 

[Automatic Monkey]

Once that decision has been made upstairs, you're wasting your effort talking to the pit person about it. I made the mistake once of making light of a back-off, and asking the floor guy if he would comp me a lunch buffet on my way out. Later that day, a fax flyer went out to other casinos with my photo. I've always wondered if that would have happened if I had just taken my chips and left without protesting my back-off.

They are never 100% sure you're an AP. So when I get backed off, I don't confirm their suspicions by acting like a robot and silently walking out. Instead I pitch a ploppy fit, accuse them of trying to cheat me by making me stop playing when I am winning/when I am trying to get even, tell them I'm going to sue them, maybe utter a few dirty words before staggering out. AP or gambler on tilt, who knows?

 

[MartyAce]

They are never 100% sure you're an AP. So when I get backed off, I don't confirm their suspicions by acting like a robot and silently walking out. Instead I pitch a ploppy fit, accuse them of trying to cheat me by making me stop playing when I am winning/when I am trying to get even, tell them I'm going to sue them, maybe utter a few dirty words before staggering out. AP or gambler on tilt, who knows?

I'm not sure this is the best approach for handling the situation. It's seems to me that now you are bringing a lot more attention to yourself then you need to. Now it all depends on who you portray yourself at the table as. If you are being snobby, arrogant, etc at the table then this probably would make sense, but I still don't know if I like the idea of bringing more attention to myself.

I typically try to become friends with everyone around me when I'm at the table. I don't act shady, I show emotions at the table (controlled), but I consistantly get comments from dealers saying how nice of a player I am and how much easier I make their jobs. I also tend to try to talk to pit bosses if I'm going to be there for a awhile to also make them a friend, so in the same situation, they will be much more friendly to me if the eye tells them I need to go. I won't make a fuss either. I won't go quietly, and I'll certainly ask why they feel that I need to go, but other then that I won't argue with them or threaten them.

By me doing this I have just made it so I can come back to this casino at another point. I didn't piss anyone off, and everyone there liked me.

Now if you go your approach, you may just start a negative chain reaction and now they will remember you a lot better as the guy who threatened to sue them and also may have gotten your picture for future cases.

I mean I may just be rambling on here, but it just seems like your method you're bringing a lot more attention to yourself then you really should be.

Another side note, try and look for the clues that something isnt right in the pit, whether that be some new people entered the pit and they are looking in your direction, a pit boss on the phone looking your way, etc. The more you can prevent these situations and just get up, will save you a lot of hassle with casino employees.

 

[Brutus]

They are never 100% sure you're an AP. So when I get backed off, I don't confirm their suspicions by acting like a robot and silently walking out. Instead I pitch a ploppy fit, accuse them of trying to cheat me by making me stop playing when I am winning/when I am trying to get even, tell them I'm going to sue them, maybe utter a few dirty words before staggering out. AP or gambler on tilt, who knows?

Good stuff.

When I have been asked about counting cards, my response is that "that is impossible." "only happens in the movies"

 

[EasyRhino]

I wonder if I should start crying next time I get backed off?

... at El Cortez, they'd probably just laugh.

 

[ihate17]

Agree, sometimes

They are never 100% sure you're an AP. So when I get backed off, I don't confirm their suspicions by acting like a robot and silently walking out. Instead I pitch a ploppy fit, accuse them of trying to cheat me by making me stop playing when I am winning/when I am trying to get even, tell them I'm going to sue them, maybe utter a few dirty words before staggering out. AP or gambler on tilt, who knows?

If you are really not known at that casino and they really are not sure but have a quick hook. This might be OK if you can do this in a way where you do not draw the attention of their ploppies. Fine at places like the Sweaty Spaniard or the Barbaric Coast (old management), where players see it all the time and they backoff so many people they can not keep track of them. If your leaving is loud and they think you upset some of their losers, your backoff can turn into a barring, as it did to a partner of mine years ago. He went into this offended ploppy act, real loud. He was foolish though because this was a more sophisticated casino with sister properties, and perhaps (never know) because he had earlier been backed off at a sister property, his backoff became a barring.

ihate17

 

[Sonny]

the Orleans to be a little sweaty?

Hey GJ! Good to see you here.

-Sonny-

 

[blackchipjim]

banning

The posts I've read so far are about what i thought they would contain. I don't think I'm near getting the tap and won't be for some time. It is interesting to read encounters that some of have had in the casinos. I was just asking because of some of the heat I started to encounter last week. blackchipjim

 

[ihate17]

coming from a casino family

Since I have several family members who have worked or do work for casinos and some of them have been in table game management, here is some of what I have gotten from them and most of it is common sense.

Most of them work in what I would call, tolerant, for casino type places.

Backoffs are handled as quietly and unnoticeable as possible. Like a real professional umpire who might throw a guy out of a game and no one knows except those on the field that he did it, no need for a big show. The other thing is, if they do back off someone and do it nicely, they get upset if that person now starts yelling, screaming, and trying to get some of their losers to get upset and stop playing. Their slant on the thing (I kind of go yes and no on it) is that if they treat you with an element of class during a backoff, they want the same from you and not an action that might cost them money.
Making a scene will definately get you remembered and perhaps more.

ihate17

 

[EasyRhino]

I'm trying to decide if I should work on a routine where I act genuinely confused, scared, and put off if backed off from a game. Not rude, just baffled, and wanting to keep playing.

It seems like it would have a chance of success, but if that's hopeless, then it would be more straightforward to just shake hands with the PC and walk out the door.

 

[supercoolmancool]

I'm trying to decide if I should work on a routine where I act genuinely confused, scared, and put off if backed off from a game. Not rude, just baffled, and wanting to keep playing.

It seems like it would have a chance of success, but if that's hopeless, then it would be more straightforward to just shake hands with the PC and walk out the door.

If you were talking to someone with the power to let you keep playing, then a routine would work almost every time. But you'd have to know a thing or two about routines.

 

[GeorgeD]

I'm trying to decide if I should work on a routine where I act genuinely confused, scared, and put off if backed off from a game. Not rude, just baffled, and wanting to keep playing.

It seems like it would have a chance of success, but if that's hopeless, then it would be more straightforward to just shake hands with the PC and walk out the door.

Seems to me that acting confused, maybe scared, and mostly saying you just want to have fun and keep playing MIGHT make them pass the word back that maybe you didn't seem like a counter. Maybe then less likely to watch for you on other visits. In the end you can only leave quietly. Any business has the right to ask you to leave without explanation ..... at least until AP's are ruled a class protected against discrimination.

I absolutely think getting nasty and creating a scene only makes things worse. If others ask they'll probably just say you were a cheater, so nobody is likely to leave thinking they toss winners out. Besides why get rude to pit crew who are probably just doing the dirty work for someone "upstairs"?