Red 7 count - Good?

Nutorious

Nutorious

Member
#1
#1
I have heard good and bad things about The red 7 count. I have ordered Arnolds book and another one that mentions and explains The Red seven count.

All i really want to know is, i am not wasting my time using and mastering this count? I am hoping to not necceserly make a living out of counting, but at least making a little bit of money and have some fun. Though if i am really good and do get amazing at counting i may make it into a proffesion, but surely once i get that good i should be able to addapt to more difficult counts and more advanced techniques?

Cheers.
 
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eandre

Well-Known Member
#2
#2
Red 7 is eary to learn. Any bonified counting method is better than none. Find the method that produces the best results against the game you play based on your ability to use flawlessly. A mistake or two an hour can mean the difference of winning. If you get fatigued easily by conversions to tc then learn a level 1 unblanced count until you feel you want to move up. I personally could not maintain my style of long play lots of table talk with a count that also tracks aces or other side counts. Ask yourself why Hi/Lo is so popular? But don't worry what the experts say, use what works for you and brings home the money.
 
Harman

Harman

Well-Known Member
#3
#3
I don't understand this count fully, why the Red 7 is +1 but black 7 is 0. It sounds very similar to hi lo, and hi lo made millions for the MIT team, and is easier to learn, but as eandre said whatever brings the money home and is easier for you. Maybe you should try a few different counts and see which one you prefer. :)
 
Harman

Harman

Well-Known Member
#4
#4
Also, I think Simpau (also from UK) is also experienced in the Red 7. If you want to ask him any questions he's a patient guy and I don't think he'd mind helping you out :)
 
Automatic Monkey

Automatic Monkey

Banned
#8
#8
zengrifter said:
The RED 7 is slightly heavier than a black one. zg
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I suppose if you wanted to confuse the eye a little, you could choose red 7's, black 7's, major suits (S,H) or minor suits (D,C) at random. You could switch every shoe or even in the middle of a shoe as long as you make the decision before seeing any more cards and without regard to cards you've already seen.

Hey this sounds like it has some potential, a counting system where system tags change while playing!
 
S

Simpau

Member
#9
#9
Snyder also suggests counting 7s as 0.5. I think he said it adds about 50c per hour for a $25 average bettor. Not sure if that makes it a level 2 unbalanced count though.
 
Nutorious

Nutorious

Member
#10
#10
Well this is how it went for me usuing the red 7 count:

First ever count: 1:12 Minutes count down correctly 52 deck of cards! (Terrible)

Best attempt this evening after practicing 2 hourish: 42:00 seconds!!

Usually getting around the 45 second mark now counting down a full 52. Still not casino material i know, but nether the less i am pretty happy with that because i was averaging about the mniute mark then it dropped to about 55 seconds then about 50 seconds now 45. To say i did that in about 2 hours of practice, think that is prety good! Eyes are pretty tired now though so im taking a break lol!

Cheers for the comments guys. Think i am going to stick with the red 7 actually, seems pretty decent.
 
EasyRhino

EasyRhino

Well-Known Member
#11
#11
Automatic Monkey said:
Hey this sounds like it has some potential, a counting system where system tags change while playing!
Click to expand...
Realistically, a counter catcher would probably just decide "I don't know what count he's using, but he's counting".

Now, if you had the ability to repeatedly switch between counting and other advanced techniques which aren't dependent on the count, you might be able to give surveillance an aneurism.
 
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eps6724

Well-Known Member
#12
#12
Red 7 is actually a bit easier than hi/lo, because of it's unbalanced count. No deck estimations/math for a true count, everything runs off of the running count. (Deck estimation I find easy. Trusting myself on the math I do not). Theory of Blackjack has the sim results between red7, hi/lo and KO pretty much equal.

The red 7 was chosen because he chose to do it that way. In Rezney's book Blackjack Bluebook II (which you really, REALLY need to read to fully understand the nuances with the unbalanced count-either Snyder's Red7 or Rezney's Kiss) has you count ALL of the 7's, but only the black 2's. (Snyder has you count all the 2's, but only the red 7's). The explanation on why the 7's or 2's, was because of the negligence of using either one of these two cards. (Or, as has been suggested, count ALL 7's as +.5). Plus, Zengrifter's explanation of the weights of the cards as good a reason as any!

Anyway, read some of the posts about red7 and Rezney's Kiss count, and a lot of your questions should be answered.

Oh, and yes-you will find a lot of people (like me) using unbalanced counts as well as balanced. It really is a personal choice!

Whatever, make sure you are comfortable and enjoying yourself!
 
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eps6724

Well-Known Member
#14
#14
SystemsTrader said:
I think you mean "Blackjack Attack", my version of "Theory of Blackjack" has no such sims.
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Yaaa, sorry, my bad. It is on page 176 of "Blackjack Attack". Thanks for catching my faulty memory!!!:)
 
H

haxxilla

Member
#15
#15
Harman said:
I don't understand this count fully, why the Red 7 is +1 but black 7 is 0. It sounds very similar to hi lo, and hi lo made millions for the MIT team, and is easier to learn, but as eandre said whatever brings the money home and is easier for you. Maybe you should try a few different counts and see which one you prefer. :)
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The MIT team was using much more complicated counting techniques then the hi-lo. That count is used in the documentaries and movies as an exemple because of how easy it is to learn, so people accually understand.
 
SD Padres

SD Padres

Well-Known Member
#16
#16
haxxilla said:
The MIT team was using much more complicated counting techniques then the hi-lo. That count is used in the documentaries and movies as an exemple of how easy it is to learn, so people accually understand.
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Not true.
 
zengrifter

zengrifter

Banned
#17
#17
haxxilla said:
The MIT team was using much more complicated counting techniques then the hi-lo. That count is used in the documentaries and movies as an exemple because of how easy it is to learn, so people accually understand.
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No, actually JohnnyC says that they mostly used a simplified HiLo - no indices, just a counter-modified BS. zg
 
I

InPlay

Banned
#18
#18
zengrifter said:
The RED 7 is slightly heavier than a black one. zg
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I would switch it up an count black as being the heavier load. That way you can relate it to more real world experiences. My back is sore just thinking about it.
 
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eps6724

Well-Known Member
#19
#19
InPlay said:
I would switch it up an count black as being the heavier load. That way you can relate it to more real world experiences. My back is sore just thinking about it.
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But black is the absence of all color, so the red pigment adds the extra weight.:)
 
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