Report from Vegas / Success with Counting

[bj2I]

I have been around this board for the past month preparing for a trip to Vegas with my wife for our anniversary. I figured I would write and let you guys know my thoughts and reflections.

First, I am again a recreational player though I know BS and count using Hi Lo. Before leaving for Vegas I studied the Illustrious 18 as well to have a good grasp of how to play. I do not live near Vegas so I don't get a chance to play often.

Because I was with my wife and playing together we stayed at one of the bigger hotels and played there mostly. The conditions were not terrible - 6D, S17, DAS, RSA. Penetration was about 1.5 (however I found out that deck estimation is one of my weaknesses).

Overall I was able to count quite successfully. Once I got in the routine I began counting by pairs as the cards were dealt out. Only a couple of times on the trip was I unable to maintain the count (one of those times was when I ended up with a 7-card 19).

My wife and I had a pretty successful trip (we averaged about 3.5 units per hour). Our best session we couldn't miss and made about 11 units per hour. My worst session I lost 5 units/hour.

My wife has a pretty good idea about basic strategy and would ask me if she was not sure what to do. She was flat betting and I was altering my bet with the count.

We never received any heat from the PCs though one dealer may have had an idea as she made a couple of hints.

I did find that there is a reason I don't do this professionally, I don't have the nuts to drop down really big bets when the count is positive. On the trip I basically spread my bets from 1-3 units. Even though there were times when the count was very positive I did not have the confidence to really drop the hammer. I think this is for two reasons:

1) At my worst session of the trip I got a couple of the most positive counts and wasn't winning. I know that it is how the cards go sometimes but it became difficult to keep putting it out there.

2) I started to doubt my count and so I would not increase my bet. I had a RC of +20 which I estimated to be a TC of about + 6/8. With this count I had 3 unit bets out and was still not winning and started to doubt myself.

Overall, I think I am a good player. I know BS and my indices and can count the cards well. But I must take my hat off to you guys who do this for a living. Though I know I can play I don't have the mentality to do it full-time. My disposition is not one where I can blow off a bad session.

I will probably hang around the board in the future and I look forward to my next trip. I live in Texas and am about a 5 hours from the nearest casino, so I don't get to play often.

Thanks for all of the advice, I am going to keep studying and keep improving.

 

[itakeyourmoney]

Prior to going to Vegas had you done any home simulations, like with real cards or on CV or something? You'll have a majority of shoes where you're going to end up min betting almost the whole time and you'll end +/- a few units, and when the high counts come you're going to have shoes where you end down 80+ units or so. Even though this happens you just need to remember that the math is on your side and that you have the advantage even if you're not winning the hands.

Before you go back to Vegas I'd recommend either using CV or playing at home through several hundred or more shoes, and be sure to record your BR after each shoe. Doing this will allow you to see that you will make money in the long run, and you'll get used to the variance that can occur, that way next time when you're faced with a huge positive count you won't be afraid to make the bets because you'll have experience with losing in high counts and you'll understand that it's just going to happen from time to time.

Edit: You should also remember that since you don't get out to Vegas a lot (and I assume you don't play much where you live), it will take you longer to reach the "long run."

 

[bjcount]

As a recreational player don't worry about the "long run". In the game your playing even with a 1-12 spread it will take you over 400 hours of playing with 3-4 other players at the table to reach it. Just know that by keeping the count, converting to accurate TC's, and using indices you'll know when the game changes from a neg advantage to a positive one. Once your more confident the big bets go out easier, win or lose.

Most importantly your spending time with the person you cherish.

BJC

 

[sabre]

"Success with Counting" and "spreading 1-3 on a 6D shoe" are mutually exclusive.

 

[MovieCasino$$$]

1) At my worst session of the trip I got a couple of the most positive counts and wasn't winning. I know that it is how the cards go sometimes but it became difficult to keep putting it out there.

2) I started to doubt my count and so I would not increase my bet. I had a RC of +20 which I estimated to be a TC of about + 6/8. With this count I had 3 unit bets out and was still not winning and started to doubt myself.

Thanks for all of the advice, I am going to keep studying and keep improving.

I think it is sort of neat that you noticed the money you would have lost on positive hi-lo counts. Maybe that count isn't what it is billed up to be. One poster here suggested that you buy CVData to confirm hi-lo. Yeah, pay $500 to be convinced that your spread is not good enough. You were betting with your mind the hugh hi-lo counts, in no time at all you will lose your mind :laugh:

Try Ken Uston's Advanced Point Count to get better results. This can be found in "Million Dollar Blackjack."

 

[itakeyourmoney]

I told him to consider getting CV (just the regular Casino Verite so he could play, not just sim or look at data) -- and since when is anything from QFIT $500? I didn't tell him to buy everything on the whole site...

But at least you aren't talking about your Youtube, Twitter, or Myspace pages, so it's all cool.

 

[bjcount]

I think it is sort of neat that you noticed the money you would have lost on positive hi-lo counts. Maybe that count isn't what it is billed up to be. One poster here suggested that you buy CVData to confirm hi-lo. Yeah, pay $500 to be convinced that your spread is not good enough. You were betting with your mind the hugh hi-lo counts, in no time at all you will lose your mind :laugh:

Try Ken Uston's Advanced Point Count to get better results. This can be found in "Million Dollar Blackjack."

At a bare minimum you only need cvcx to determine the proper spread and it cost $85.00. It also offers much more than just spread info.


BJC

Edit: and CVBJ, the training package is $90 bucks. Still a mear pittance vs yourly daily action at the store.

 

[rukus]

"Success with Counting" and "spreading 1-3 on a 6D shoe" are mutually exclusive.

false

 

[MovieCasino$$$]

At a bare minimum you only need cvcx to determine the proper spread and it cost $85.00. It also offers much more than just spread info.

So just like you believe it's $500, you believe all the facts of the movie star your promoting. {cough cough} He may be a nice guy, but you should really give up promoting your buddy and his unpublished method, no one wants to hear it anymore. Can't you tell?

BJC

Edit: and CVBJ, the training package is $90 bucks. Still a mear pittance vs yourly daily action at the store.

Here is the price catalog for Casino Verite http://www.qfit.com/orders.htm
You will see that the complete package is $550. Read em and weep. So my info is correct. Bj21 will eventually get sucked into buying the whole package by you dupes.

 

[johndoe]

Here is the price catalog for Casino Verite http://www.qfit.com/orders.htm
You will see that the complete package is $550. Read em and weep. So my info is correct. Bj21 will eventually get sucked into buying the whole package by you dupes.

You're just being obnoxious, stop misleading people. Yes, you can buy all the different software for that price as a package, but few need it all. You can also buy two sets for $1100, but that's not needed either. What's your point?

$85 or whatever for the basic software is well worth it, in my opinion. But no one is forcing anyone to buy it.

 

[itakeyourmoney]

If you go to a Cadillac dealership and look at some pimped out Escalade that costs $250,000 does that mean that everyone who buys an Escalade is going to have to pay $250,000? Nope, they don't. And there's no reason why he would have to be suckered into buying every product by QFIT. I own CVBJ, and if I ever need info from CVCX or CVData I just ask the nice folks on this site for a little bit of help.

Blue Barack Obama = (Because he's cool lol)

 

[MoneyPlays]

false

Thank you.

 

[MoneyPlays]

Excellent

I have been around this board for the past month preparing for a trip to Vegas with my wife for our anniversary. I figured I would write and let you guys know my thoughts and reflections.

First, I am again a recreational player though I know BS and count using Hi Lo. Before leaving for Vegas I studied the Illustrious 18 as well to have a good grasp of how to play. I do not live near Vegas so I don't get a chance to play often.

Because I was with my wife and playing together we stayed at one of the bigger hotels and played there mostly. The conditions were not terrible - 6D, S17, DAS, RSA. Penetration was about 1.5 (however I found out that deck estimation is one of my weaknesses).

Overall I was able to count quite successfully. Once I got in the routine I began counting by pairs as the cards were dealt out. Only a couple of times on the trip was I unable to maintain the count (one of those times was when I ended up with a 7-card 19).

My wife and I had a pretty successful trip (we averaged about 3.5 units per hour). Our best session we couldn't miss and made about 11 units per hour. My worst session I lost 5 units/hour.

My wife has a pretty good idea about basic strategy and would ask me if she was not sure what to do. She was flat betting and I was altering my bet with the count.

We never received any heat from the PCs though one dealer may have had an idea as she made a couple of hints.

I did find that there is a reason I don't do this professionally, I don't have the nuts to drop down really big bets when the count is positive. On the trip I basically spread my bets from 1-3 units. Even though there were times when the count was very positive I did not have the confidence to really drop the hammer. I think this is for two reasons:

1) At my worst session of the trip I got a couple of the most positive counts and wasn't winning. I know that it is how the cards go sometimes but it became difficult to keep putting it out there.

2) I started to doubt my count and so I would not increase my bet. I had a RC of +20 which I estimated to be a TC of about + 6/8. With this count I had 3 unit bets out and was still not winning and started to doubt myself.

Overall, I think I am a good player. I know BS and my indices and can count the cards well. But I must take my hat off to you guys who do this for a living. Though I know I can play I don't have the mentality to do it full-time. My disposition is not one where I can blow off a bad session.

I will probably hang around the board in the future and I look forward to my next trip. I live in Texas and am about a 5 hours from the nearest casino, so I don't get to play often.

Thanks for all of the advice, I am going to keep studying and keep improving.

Thanks bj21, this is an excellent post for all the rec players.

I'm in the same boat with you. I've got 3-4 hours to the nearest casino, and more like 8 hours to the nearest decent game. I'll be going to Vegas in about 6 weeks, hopefully playing the same rules you did, with the exception of late surrender. Was that available to you, I didn't see it mentioned.

I'll also be playing with my wife, but she will be my 2nd hand, with maybe a little smaller spread while I go for a little larger spread on high counts. But it will not be the same ratio all the time, for cover purposes we'll mix it up. Whether or not I'll be able to push the big money out there remains to be seen. I guess that's what separates the recs from the pros. And I'm not too sure my wife won't smack my hand if I get a black chip heading toward the circle. :laugh:

Again, great post. If you have any other insights from your trip that come to you later please post again.

 

[bj2I]

To answer a few of the questions (I don't know how to quote the posts).

"itakeyourmoney" - I didn't purchase the CV software (partially because I have a Mac) but did play over a thousand hands on the trainer on this site as well as dealt myself.

Part of my lack of bet spreading probably was due to my wife being next to me, she probably wouldn't have handled it very well if I was putting blacks out there and losing.

"Moneyplays" - I was offered and used late surrender quite often. I even had a dealer on our best session tell my wife and I that it is "a sucker bet, the only reason casinos offer it is because they are guaranteed money."

"MovieCasino" - I don't doubt Hi Lo at all. I just wasn't getting the cards that day. At our best winning session I only had significantly positive counts a couple times for very brief times. Their were plenty of neutral and negative counts where my wife and I were still getting cards and the dealer was finding ways to bust. In fact once during a neutral count I took a 7-card 19 with 3 aces. That night the cards were with us.

 

[bj2I]

As a recreational player don't worry about the "long run". In the game your playing even with a 1-12 spread it will take you over 400 hours of playing with 3-4 other players at the table to reach it. Just know that by keeping the count, converting to accurate TC's, and using indices you'll know when the game changes from a neg advantage to a positive one. Once your more confident the big bets go out easier, win or lose.

Most importantly your spending time with the person you cherish.

BJC

Thanks BJC.

 

[MoneyPlays]

Practice

To answer a few of the questions (I don't know how to quote the posts).

"itakeyourmoney" - I didn't purchase the CV software (partially because I have a Mac) but did play over a thousand hands on the trainer on this site as well as dealt myself.

The trainers are good and I use them to work on BS and I18. I recently built my own blackjack table and I have a 6D shoe and discard rack. I've been practicing on that 2-3 shoes a night. My wife will deal for me most of the time. She wasn't very fast with the shoe so she'll take a pack in her hands and deal. It really makes a difference to get that live feel, with real cards coming out in real time, a drink in the cup holder, all those chips in the rack. Turn on the stereo AND the TV to mimic distractions. Really good for deck estimation too. I'll vary the number of hands at the table, 2 hands for me most of the time and 1-4 ghost players plus a little bit of heads up. Highly productive practice.