Showdowns with the pit bosses

[blackjack avenger]

Watching the Money

If you are the biggest bettor:
at the table
in the pit
in the casino
expect to be watched

If you are the biggest winner:
at the table
in the pit
in the casino
expect to be watched

As far as if the watching is with malice, it depends on the innocence of your play and your persona.

It's part of the pit's job to know where the money is!

 

[Sharky]

I prefer the confused look, like hey man, why are you continually looking at me?

i usually blow them kisses, especially guys

 

[kewljason]

Call him over. Ask him if he is staring at something on your face. Then explain you try to hide a defect or illness complication and wondered if you needed to worry about it showing. Only a real Ahole would stare at you after that. If it continues start talking to the other players at the table about how insensitive the PB is acting. The eye in the sky may be watching but by then I doubt the PB would dare.

Dude, This is ridiculous. You aren't going to 'shame' him into leaving you alone. His intent is to make you as uncomfortable as he can in the hopes that you will depart. These actions would just confirm that he is succeeding. This isn't a battle that you are going to win and attempting to do so can only result in a bigger loss, the loss of that particular store. The name of the game is longevity and being able to play again. You do so by exiting as quietly and non-memorable as possible.

 

[3aces]

Cover and Act

I think cover plays are generally useless, but in this type of situation my goal would be to try to convince the PB that I am not an expert player. I don't want him to call upstairs to alert surveillance. I want to play out the good shoe and then leave, but I don't want them to do a tape review after I leave.

So there are a few plays that will not cost significant $, especially since it will be only for part of a shoe - pass on insurance if it's marginal, take even money on a BJ even if its wrong, don't double on certain soft hands, etc.

There was a good thread somewhere about how surveillance only gets involved when the pit calls.

Also, what's your act? You gotta have one other than the quiet guy uncomfortable with attention. A good facade to be established before the count rises - hard drinking, hard gambling, exuberant fellow who is friendly with the PB. When he's staring you down in a good count, continue the act and make a few cover plays and then depart and hope he decides you were not a counter.

The goal is to take advantage of the shoe opportunity AND to live to play again for many more good shoes, not to respond aggressively or angrily, IMO.

 

[nickelfish]

Also, what's your act? You gotta have one other than the quiet guy uncomfortable with attention. A good facade to be established before the count rises - hard drinking, hard gambling, exuberant fellow who is friendly with the PB.

I'm still new to the whole thing, so you can take my advice with salt to taste.

It seems to me that the best act to put on is one that marks you as vulnerable and weak. Raging alcoholic with deep pockets. Drugged out weirdo slamming down chips for the action. Being a woman or minority other than Asian (every echelon of casino hierarchy seems to be dominated by white males, suggesting a certain level of sexism and racism). By the same token, being gay or acting effeminate. Toss a stutter or lisp in there. Use their prejudices and expectations against them.

Some of the most successful hunters in nature put on an act and strike before the prey even knows they've made a mistake. Be like that, me thinks.

 

[noblackjackhack]

Two points

Everyone here has good advice for one situation or another. I would argue half of getting away with counting is the psychology. It's true the PB is keeping track of the money. Don't overthink why he's watching and camouflage once hes watching may be useless. I would strike up casual conversation with him. Make a joke. Get to know him. Of course every situation is different.

Another good point is most PB cant, in practice, count well. They, in fact are better trained to recognize counting than actual counting. Ive spoken with two supervisors and truth be told, none of them can count. They look for a few clues such as bed spread (any idiot can figure that out) and (hiding chips in your pocket to pretend to show a loss when you leave - I think theres a term for this....) Those clues are easier to detect than changes to BS.

But the human psychology cant be ignored. If the PB stares at you, and you react, thats a sign of guilt Id say. Just stop spreading your bets and continue to play. React how you would if you werent counting. Be human.

Good luck

 

[FrankieT]

I think cover plays are generally useless, but in this type of situation my goal would be to try to convince the PB that I am not an expert player. I don't want him to call upstairs to alert surveillance. I want to play out the good shoe and then leave, but I don't want them to do a tape review after I leave.

So there are a few plays that will not cost significant $, especially since it will be only for part of a shoe - pass on insurance if it's marginal, take even money on a BJ even if its wrong, don't double on certain soft hands, etc.

There was a good thread somewhere about how surveillance only gets involved when the pit calls.

Also, what's your act? You gotta have one other than the quiet guy uncomfortable with attention. A good facade to be established before the count rises - hard drinking, hard gambling, exuberant fellow who is friendly with the PB. When he's staring you down in a good count, continue the act and make a few cover plays and then depart and hope he decides you were not a counter.

The goal is to take advantage of the shoe opportunity AND to live to play again for many more good shoes, not to respond aggressively or angrily, IMO.

I've been trying the "outgoing, talkative, nice guy drunk who talks too much, but also is a generous tipper and cheers at the other players wins". It's tough to do and takes practice. It'd work great if I reigned it in a little. I think i've come off as a little bit too annoying in a few sessions - I told a full table of ploppies that I love them.

I never talk with the pit boss - unless the pit boss comes over and starts talking to the other players, or other players start talking to pit boss. I've thought that it'd look a little bit too out of place, but it actually might be a good idea. I've befriended and tipped many dealers who also work as pit bosses (seems to work well as they give me the least heat)

If my bets are huge at the end of a shoe and the pit boss is looking, I always take a 5-10 minute break.

 

[FrankieT]

Call him over. Ask him if he is staring at something on your face. Then explain you try to hide a defect or illness complication and wondered if you needed to worry about it showing. Only a real Ahole would stare at you after that. If it continues start talking to the other players at the table about how insensitive the PB is acting. The eye in the sky may be watching but by then I doubt the PB would dare.

Or even better, paste a giant fake mole on your face. The pit boss will b e forced to look away at all times, otherwise it will appear like he's rudely gazing at your big, disgusting mole!

 

[Dyepaintball12]

One of the guy's on the forum here was playing with his wife and one of the bosses, the SHIFT I believe, was standing near them and staring them down.

His wife seriously looks up at him and says, "Can you go away? You're making us lose."

Now THAT's ballsy.


- Dye

 

[FrankieT]

One of the guy's on the forum here was playing with his wife and one of the bosses, the SHIFT I believe, was standing near them and staring them down.

His wife seriously looks up at him and says, "Can you go away? You're making us lose."

Now THAT's ballsy.


- Dye

That's not so hard to believe - women can get away with a lot more. That's why a woman counter would can do extremely well.

Bad or threatening behavior by women (as observed by men and women) isn't viewed the same way as bad behavior by men. As far as the justice system, women get significantly less jail time for the same crimes. There is no precedednce of a man getting no jail time for pre-meditated murder, unlike women - women have all kinds of usable defenses in the justice system that men could never use ( the pms defense as one example)

 

[Eye of the Tiger]

There is no precedednce of a man getting no jail time for pre-meditated murder, unlike women - women have all kinds of usable defenses in the justice system that men could never use ( the pms defense as one example)

So you think Casey Anthony will go scott free ? She will fry when they throw the switch on old sparky.

 

[bigplayer]

Whatever you do, do not look timid or afraid.

The best thing to do is to look angry, like why is this guy staring at me? It will make him uncomfortable and walk away.

Agree, stand up and act very pissed off and slam your chips into the betting circle...it works very well to deflect heat and intimidates the pit into keeping a safe distance away from the table. When the count tanks curse loudly and just walk away like you need to get your head straight...when you come back to the table it will seem as though you've come to your senses and are now back in control betting small (hopefully with a new shoe).

 

[bigplayer]

So you think Casey Anthony will go scott free ? She will fry when they throw the switch on old sparky.

Florida doesn't use Old Sparky anymore...Lethal Injection like elsewhere.

 

[bigplayer]

I think cover plays are generally useless, but in this type of situation my goal would be to try to convince the PB that I am not an expert player. I don't want him to call upstairs to alert surveillance. I want to play out the good shoe and then leave, but I don't want them to do a tape review after I leave.

So there are a few plays that will not cost significant $, especially since it will be only for part of a shoe - pass on insurance if it's marginal, take even money on a BJ even if its wrong, don't double on certain soft hands, etc.

There was a good thread somewhere about how surveillance only gets involved when the pit calls.

Also, what's your act? You gotta have one other than the quiet guy uncomfortable with attention. A good facade to be established before the count rises - hard drinking, hard gambling, exuberant fellow who is friendly with the PB. When he's staring you down in a good count, continue the act and make a few cover plays and then depart and hope he decides you were not a counter.

The goal is to take advantage of the shoe opportunity AND to live to play again for many more good shoes, not to respond aggressively or angrily, IMO.

Use cheap subtle cover (and lots of it) when the evaluation comes via the eye (like always standing on 16 vs 10). Use obvious expensive cover when you want to immediately fool direct evaluation from an AC style counter catcher. (i.e., splitting 2-2 vs 10)

 

[Eye of the Tiger]

Florida doesn't use Old Sparky anymore...Lethal Injection like elsewhere.

Partially correct. Allows prisoners to choose between lethal injection and electrocution.



Although the electric chair has become a symbol of the death penalty, its use is in decline due to the rise of lethal injection, which is widely believed to be a more humane method of execution. Although some states still maintain electrocution as a method of execution, today it is only maintained as a secondary method that may be chosen over lethal injection at the request of the prisoner. As of 2010, electrocution is an optional form of execution in Alabama, Florida, South Carolina and Virginia. In the states of Kentucky and Tennessee, the electric chair has been retired except for those whose capital crimes were committed prior to legislated dates in 1998 (Kentucky: March 31, 1998; Tennessee: December 31, 1998) and chose electrocution. In both states, inmates who do not choose electrocution or inmates who committed their crimes after the designated date are killed by lethal injection. The electric chair is an alternate form of execution approved for potential use in Arkansas, Illinois, and Oklahoma if other forms of execution are found unconstitutional in the state at the time of execution. On February 8, 2008, the Nebraska Supreme Court determined that execution via the electric chair was a "cruel and unusual punishment" under the State's constitution. This brought executions of this type to an end in Nebraska, the only remaining state to retain electrocution as its sole method of execution.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_chair

 

[tthree]

Dude, This is ridiculous. You aren't going to 'shame' him into leaving you alone. His intent is to make you as uncomfortable as he can in the hopes that you will depart. These actions would just confirm that he is succeeding. This isn't a battle that you are going to win and attempting to do so can only result in a bigger loss, the loss of that particular store. The name of the game is longevity and being able to play again. You do so by exiting as quietly and non-memorable as possible.

I am a red/ green chipper. I guess I can get away with this stuff. Last time I used that one I got an apology and a comp way over my play grade. If I were betting black I would probably have a different experience. In 30 years of play I have never been banned and only backed off once. That was just because I kicked their ass for 3 straight long days. It was a killer run.

I think the stare down is a game of chicken to see how you will react. If it intimidates you at all, their suspicions are confirmed. Always use a players card. Be emotional, act like you are chasing a lot, and be chatty at the table while hardly looking at the cards. Use all the favorite ploppy superstitions loudly when it fits and curse how you been burned by that play to often when it doesn't. Be anything but inconspicuous. That is how you dont fit the profile of a counter. That is where longevity is found.

Most counters are like emotionless robots that do nothing but stare at the cards and shrink every time the PB comes to close or stares at them for a few minutes. The people who dont leave after the stare usually dont get the stare again. They passed the test.

 

[Gamblor]

Use cheap subtle cover (and lots of it) when the evaluation comes via the eye (like always standing on 16 vs 10). Use obvious expensive cover when you want to immediately fool direct evaluation from an AC style counter catcher. (i.e., splitting 2-2 vs 10)

I wouldn't go so far as to suggest an obviously bad cover play under direct evaluation. Something a little less dramatic and more ploppyish (not idiotish), like standing A7 v 10, not doubling 11 v 10 etc.,

 

[FrankieT]

You really must learn to schmooze them.
You really should be more comfortable with them by now, but its clear that you are not. zg

I'm good at schmoozing dealers, but pit bosses are another story. What's involved in schmoozing a pit boss? Nothing sexual I hope.

 

[Lonesome Gambler]

Of course, this won't be useful in every situation, but I prefer to engage any bosses that take a strong interest in my table. If I have a partner at the table, this serves the purpose of taking attention away from them while simultaneously deflecting suspicion. Advantage players are quiet, guilty-looking, able to be intimidated—they don't generally look you in the eye and start asking you questions. Of course, I'm always very friendly and conversational, and this is somewhat contrary to other good strategies—like KJ's strategy of staying as unmemorable as possible, which is good advice—but I've found that this nearly always puts a boss off their guard for a little while.

Hell, give them an errand to run ("do you know when that restaurant across from the other pit opens?") and thank them when they get an answer for you. Counters try to avoid bosses, not take the initiative to engage them in conversation. As a side note, I should add to be friendly and confident, but keep the conversation as boring as possible so the boss won't legitimately gain interest in speaking with you!

 

[Coyote]

Of course, this won't be useful in every situation, but I prefer to engage any bosses that take a strong interest in my table. If I have a partner at the table, this serves the purpose of taking attention away from them while simultaneously deflecting suspicion. Advantage players are quiet, guilty-looking, able to be intimidated—they don't generally look you in the eye and start asking you questions. Of course, I'm always very friendly and conversational, and this is somewhat contrary to other good strategies—like KJ's strategy of staying as unmemorable as possible, which is good advice—but I've found that this nearly always puts a boss off their guard for a little while.

Hell, give them an errand to run ("do you know when that restaurant across from the other pit opens?") and thank them when they get an answer for you. Counters try to avoid bosses, not take the initiative to engage them in conversation. As a side note, I should add to be friendly and confident, but keep the conversation as boring as possible so the boss won't legitimately gain interest in speaking with you!

In my limited experience, I find this to be very true and I try to use the same MO at the tables.

Coyote